General Discussionis slark viable as a hard carry?

he can definitely carry and do well late/ultra late but if you mean hard carry like those in 4 protect 1 strats then no

u can do alot with refresher double ulti and 5 other items

n, unless hes ahead of the other carry the entire game
slark isnt hard carry

Jo

I dont define a hard carry by needing a 4p1 strat, I mean, if Slark can carry late vs fellows like void, troll, spectre, jugg etc, cuz yea, 10 seconds of invulnerability+ a 4.4 sec stun (2x abyssal), maybe bkb can make a hero pretty strong+ agi stacks you get from passive

i think slark shits on most "typical" hard carries even ultra late like spectre/void/whatever

but he has to do good, its hard to play from behind

if yu play slark right yu can always wyn late game, the problem agaist late game slark are ilusion based carries like pl that will burn your mana too dead

^ thats what I was talking about, I see so many games where slark just, briefly, destroys enemy carries, especially like you mention, carries heavy reliant on their passives.

Also what would be the best 6 slotted slark?
boots, silver edge, skadi, Abyssal, moon shard, refresher + eaten moonshard? (/ bkb if needed)

even if yu have bkb refresher, that late game bkb will be in 5 sec coldown and if yu use your refresh yu will spend sooo much mana

Ya, PL is I think one of the best carries vs slark cuz he is never able to solo kill him+ mana burn unless heavily ahead of the PL.

the item build depends alot of there heroes but skady and abissal are absolutely core on that hero

replace moonshard by butterfly

Yes he can be a hard carry one vs one he beats most hard carries he shits on medusa and spec all game including late only thing lacking is aoe damage but even still a 5-6 slotted slark is one of the strongest 5-6 slotted carries .

@nitron idk what to say, it gives you 60 attack speed, 60 damage, and the evasion is mitigated by mkb.

I mean it depends on the game, but in the long run/most scenarios i will probably get moonshard over it

Late game slark is a monster, its really not easy to fight against a hero with 10 seconds of invisibility ( refresher ) and double abysal

Slark falls behind in ultra late game imo. The thing is he is extremely good on small fights like 2v2 or 3v3 but his dmg is mostly single target so his dmg output will be lower than other hyper carries like Medusa or Spectre but he wrecks both of them 1v1. But I don't think this is relevant because Slark comes online when he gets his SB unlike a Spectre who needs Radi+HoT before joining fights or a Medusa who needs Linken's+Skadi. On a Spectre vs Slark match-up Slark just gets SB and murders enemy team continiously and finishes game at 30-40 mins. The major disadvantage of Slark is in mid-game fights occur more commonly and he will constantly have Essence Shift stacks but in ultra-late game fights occur more rarely so he won't have Essence Shift stacks ready and it will decrease his dmg.

Meh he basically eliminates the enemy carry tho when u are getting bashed and slowed by skadi you can barely even participate in fight . If other team only has one strong carry u kill them then finish off enemy team with ur team . If they got multiple strong carries vs you it's a a bit harder but that's same with all carries if u vs two farmed hard carries ur gonna be at disadvantage

I don't think I ever had a problem with another carry if we were both equally farmed on slark

Excetp maybe troll on last patch but fuck troll last patch .

It's always been hard for me to win with slark when game gets longer. You can't easily eliminate enemy carry because every support now gets a solar crest and/or glimmer cape. And AoE dmg is a huge problem for Slark and mid heroes with aoe dmg are kinda popular e.g Lesh, Lina.

Slark is amazing late game, just bad against illusion carries like Chaos Knight and Phantom Lancer. He's honestly good at all points of the game.

other than like ck/pl/void think he'd shit on just about any carry. Maybe even void if he could live through chrono

If PL or CK is picked and you are having trouble, just farm a Shivas Guard or convince someone else to

YES, but Slark is not the hero in this patch. He's actually really bad this patch. At least in pubs when u cant ban Leshrac etc.

shivas might work for ck but pls gonna have new illus in no time

Lesrac is a pain in the ass for slark , he isn't the greatest against illusion carries but atleast his leash lets u know which one is the real one . Leash plus abyssal and I tend to shit down heros like pl even .

Yea, i know that he isnt really good against fotm, bloodseeker due to he can see you and mitigate your mobility with rupture, and leshrac who basically hits you through your ult with everything he has.

Aside from illusions carries( i dont think that naga is a problem tho, and i am pretty sure you can kite CK quite easily, with PL, i dont see how you can solo beat him, you need your team to have heavy AoE) i think he beats pretty much any other carry, even void, silver edge into abysall( maybe you get few lucky bashes too) with some help from team or if he somehow survives you ult and, he has to ult, cuz if not, he dies, if he does, i mean, he might be able to kill some of your teammates if they dont position accordingly, but he is still gonna die after. Idk, this matchup i think is decided by who jumps first/have better lockdown on team.

Oh and about building Shiva against illlusions carries, i think its a waste, you need items that provide you tankability, attack speed, stats, mobility, shiva offers only tankability against physical damage, while it might help you stick on your target via active, there are much better items for that. And if i really need to manfight, why not build a mjolnir?

Well ya u prolly need ur team to help vs a farmed pl but ur leash lets ur team know which one to focus and u Nbyssal him kicking him down plus if enemy supports try to focus yu can ult . It's not a favorable match up but still doable . It auto corrected locking with kicking but I like it so I'll keep it lol

Also, whats the best build for him( not 6 slot, i mean, whats the item build order smth like that), i usually went like treads, bottle, into Shadowblade/Silver edge into skadi, but now i started to build BSJ build, treads,aquila,drums into SnY, bkb if needed, then silver edge, skadi etc.

i can see the reason behind it, and i believe that is probably the best build as his lvl cuz teams are more coordinated and 5 man alot, but here in 3k bracket i am rarely forced to fight and have time and space to farm and look for pick offs that why i think SB can still work

@Filthy

the problem with leash, if PL isnt retarded/doesnt need to dodge other abilities, he can wait until you leash> doppleganger and then you dont know which one is real.

Well yea, i guess you can abyssal first but it really depends on both players time reactions

as a slark picker i have to say slark is shit :D

I go pms into treads into Aquila into sb , some games I build qb, some I dont it seems optional . Next most games I build skadi , occassionally I'll go silver edge first if against a pa or something . First thing I seel is pms then qb if I build it , usaully cAn hang on to Aquila for most of the game . I usually build basher after skadi unless enemy has evasion I'll go mkb , if enemy has evasion and is main issue for my team I'll go mkb before skadi but I try to avoid this if I can . So typical game first 5 slots sb treads , Aquila , skadi , basher . Next I build some kind of attack speed item usually butterfly or moon shard depends if I think enemy will be able to build a mkb any time soon, sometimes I'll build ac but usually Ill go moon shard . Next I upgrade abyssal blade then maybe silver edge depending on game . Treads abyssal skadi silver edge moon shArd is usually enough to end the game with I don't have a set plan for after 5 slotted depends on game but I guess refresher is optimal 6th slot . Is actaully like to know when most people build refresher on slark .

^+1

i just finished watching BSJ 3 hours guide on Slark, and it was pretty neat. I think he really found how to play around the patch with this hero cuz he isnt really the best 5v5 teamfights early on, but with drums>sny>(bkb if needed)> SB you can actually contribute to fights

you mean drums AND sny?

you either get one, or another, its a waste to get both

if u want sny go straight sny, buildup with belt of str and band of elveskin

I feel like he gets a large power surge with sb that's why I like having it after treads Aquila and pms , with those 4 items plus setting treads on str I can await pick off the supports in a early team fight , although optimally I do admit it's be better to get solo pick offs at this point if u can . Qb is awesome on slark Sometimes if u gott carry dust u don't have room for it plus I forgot to mention I pick up a oov at beginning so I often won't have a slot for tp sometimes , in that case if I got qb I usually just sell my pms very early . Lately I have been building qb most of the time and just selling pms early , I guess I could skip pms but I find it really helps his early game .

I never build s&y Cuz I prefer a early skadi Cuz I like to fight with slark a lot .

slark is viable as hardcarry, but you need either offlaner or mid being able to do smthng as well
i cant rly explain the intuition, but slark doesnt ever work in 1+4 laneups (like am or sf would, f.e.); you need some secondary carry, too.

How often do u get a team where no one else on ur team picks a carry tho ^

If I build skadi late I think I'd theoretically go drums Cuz I hate having to return to fountain after fighting . With skadi I just farm / fight non stop .

The reason it's hard to win late is cus slark doesn't push towers well. He is a beast in fights though, he's a legic hc, but I want to back him up with supports you dmg towers like shadow shaman or jakiro, or a mid with tower dmg like shadowfeind.

i usually have highest tower damage in my slark games

^everyhing works in 4.2k

well you are 4.2k solo so you know better i guess ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Slark only gets high td if u wipe enemy and get a bunch of stacks of essance from it . Which happens surpisingly often if you doing well wit slark :0

well you should be doing well with slark or you lost

Sometimes I have to offlane him and start slow and either we lose and I never get strong enough for my "safelane carry" and mid holds the fort down for me to catch up then enemy is fucked , that is theoretically how you win not doing well wit slark :p

Well im an actual HC player, but not a "HC player" who plays PA, Sven, Tiny and those type of heros, i main Naga, Medusa and Spectre, really hardcore carrys lategame, i know what is play with rapiers, i know how to win against divine carriers only split-pushing them, and i know that no carry can outcarry a seven (or more) slotted spectre with refresher in the stash. Im just 4k mmr solo so im not a pro by any means but not a fucking noob either :p
In the last 3 months in lategame matches i only lose 1 or 2 games against slark playing as HC
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/100003807/matches?date=3month&hero=&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=all_pick&region=&faction=&duration=50-&enjoyment=any&timezone=Pacific%2FPago_Pago
BSJ said that slark can go "toe to toe" against a spectre lategame but that is bullshit hes a slark picker after all.
Slark only can outcarry such hard carries by forcing them to commit mistakes and making them waste valuable cooldowns, that is THE ONLY WAY. So the "problem" with slark is that the hero only can attack 1 enemy and he cannot be in many places at the same time and above that hes melee, so in very late game (unlike in midgame or early) hes kitable by supports with selfcast euls, ghost scepter, invis, bkb+force etc. He has to chase everybody and cannot defend his own teammates.
Im not saying that slark is a bad hero (this patch isnt the best for slark), i only say that he isnt so strong as a hard carry in ultra late scenarios.