General Discussion

General DiscussionPatch 7.23.

Patch 7.23. in General Discussion

    With the conclusion of the International 9, when can we expect the new patch to come out? And the new heroes as well.


      15th day ofc Kuppa

      Pale Mannie

        20th december
        last day of fall


          I imagine the new heros will come with a 7.3. They usually like a nice round decimal with the new heros


            Nerfs to Alch, ench, mirana

            Tu tayta


              play as good as you can

                Probably gonna be some nerfs to Tiny and Ember Spirit too

                Appendix Vermiformis

                  Of course it will be round of nerfs/buffs/reworks.
                  1. Tiny's tree volley either will be nerfed (cooldown too fast and the tree's damage is massive with the right item)
                  2. Enchantress, Alchemist, Shadow Demon and Elder titan will certainly be nerfed due to high contest rate.
                  3. Riki, techies, ursa, KotL and brewmaster might get a buff or even a rework.
                  4. Solar crest will certainly be nerfed, and the trio (Bracer, Wraith Band, Null Talisman) will be reworked especially bracer.
                  5. Diffusal blade removed, reduce n0tail's base intelligence, Topson will be removed from mid, ana must take a break for 2 years, every "CEEEEEEB" deals pure damage on to Ceb based on number of E*10, JerAx can no longer buyback, Redbull will be bought by Valve. OG will no longer have logo and can't spray/taunt/spam chat wheels
                  6. Snapfire and Void Spirit duh...

                  Sorry! Just for FuN

                    If they nerf alche I hope they'll buff Brood lol


                      I'd say Alch is probably in one of its least OP forms this Ti9.
                      It's not the heroes' fault -- the changes to the map (high placed farming areas etc) make him better ; he's weaker than he used to be.

                      People are also finally going a real item build where they don't build octarine and manta ; that was just farm moar & didn't allow to close games.

                      I think the heroes themselves won't be changed so much, Tiny Aghs CD reduction sure, Ench's sturdyness or damage (only 1), I'm actually going to bet on gold/xp/camp changes.
                      Streaks and leads no longer mean much because of late game & talents.

                      Gym 5 days, Rest 2 days

                        Item changes: minor cost and stat changes. Sange, Kaya and Yasha upgrade to be introduced (will require all three items and a 300 gold recipe.

                        Phase boots nerfed slightly - they’re just so much better than treads now for almost all melee heroes except those that specifically need attack speed and stats (like illusion heroes).

                        Hero buffs: Riki reckon he will just get a straight up agi gain buff finally.

                        Night stalker ultimate cooldown buff improved by like 20 seconds, maybe silence aura aoe increased.

                        Pit lord even more pit of malice buffs given how buffed he was prior to TI but was basically always passed over in favour of tide hunter.

                        Bloodseeker for reasons.

                        Clockwerk: more tankiness or spell damage or lower mana or something.

                        Clinkz: level 20 talent replaces 16 health Regen (which nobody takes) with burning skeletons take 3 hits to kill. Plus more int gain.

                        Lycan, howl buffs or something. Change aghs wolves to give only a tiny like 5 gold/exp bounty or something. Increased crit damage in ultimate form.

                        Luna: more mana or improved cast animation for lucent beam or longer stun.

                        Drow: nerfs absolutely destroyed her, you didn’t see a single drow strat the whole tournament.

                        Zeus: more laning buffs, maybe some decent attack range? Suppose it was buffed to 450 and attack animation pull back improved as well so he could actually be safely run and contest mid. Did terribly this tournament. Picked 5 times and lost all of them.

                        Lich: fear gaze cooldown, range buffed.

                        Hero nerfs:

                        elder titan aura aoe probably made smaller

                        Ench: made a bit more fragile so she is easier to burst.

                        Alch: ultimate cooldown increased.

                        Wisp: spirit ball damage nerf probably.

                        Shadow demon: mana cost and cooldown nerfs or something probably. Particularly for disruption.

                        Tiny: mana cost or spell damage maybe. Aghs nerf.

                        Gyro: mana nerfs to spells.

                        Tidehunter: maybe minus 1 base armour.

                        Meta: kill bounty rework again.

                        Creep gold CS formula changed. Creep exp formula changed


                          With all the nerfs incoming, I'm really hoping to see the heroes that were next to unpicked (less than 3 games) and had little success in the tournament get some much needed buffs and some heroes could use a total rework...

                          I don't know if they do anything to Io... It would be just Ana nerf. He wasn't all that much picked and others trying the hero didn't have all that much success for it. Some number tinkering, but he wasn't really a dominant hero in the tournament. Heroes like Elder Titan, Shadow Demon, Mirana, Ogre Magi, Tiny, Alchemist, Tide were way more prevalent in the tournament. And will likely see some type of nerf each.

                          I hope we get new items as well, and some reworks for items that see little to no use in the game... There are some former staples that basically see no use. Like Drums for example. It is very rarely built now and it wasn't all that long ago that it was the go to item for a huge chunk of heroes. Also the Bracers, Wraith Band, Null Talisman could use an upgrade item. It was just changed with the Crown thing, but these solid starting items could use an upgrade later in the game to a more powerful item... It would be more natural growth of the inventory. Maybe have them be parts of Sange, Yasha and Kaya...

                          But who knows, the reality is we will get a big patch within about a months time. We might get a new "little" patch very soon with the TI nerfs to balance out the game for now, but a bigger one is coming and it is always earth shaking. It will always create a new meta.

                          Patching... When will the current ranked season end? And when can we vote for or against the ranked role queue thing? That should be coming very soon. Maybe even with the TI nerfs...


                            Look at Tiny, he has 44% winrate in pubs but is a little bit too powerfull at pro level.

                            So what do you do : nerf him to balance the pro scene but you kill him in pubs

                            Is it better to favored the pro scene (0.1% of players) or the pubs players ?


                              i dont think valve count your 1k mmr games as pubs
                              in 5k+ tiny have 47% winrate which is fine


                                47% is still low to justify a nerf


                                  Valve always look at the tournament stats over pubs winrate
                                  *Forecasting tiny's ags nerf*


                                    man, winrate is not every thing, there is sth called difficulty too
                                    tiny dont need much skill, so for a ez hero 47% winrate is fine.
                                    pickrate is the good estimation how hard a hero is
                                    tiny is 5th right now. for a hero who has 20% pickrate , 47% is really good winrate
                                    same as lycan who has 57% winrate and dont need any nerfs, he has 2% pickrate.

                                    ХРУС ИХС

                                      buff a brewmaster, ty


                                        Pro games dictate the hero changes... Based on your logic Tiny would be buffed. And that is not happening, no way, no how. I think they will give the tree volley a much longer cool down, but other than that, I don't think they will nerf him too much.

                                        I think the pub win% for Tiny is low because the whole tree volley thing is harder to pull off in a pub environment. In order to get the full effect, you need a good setup for it and that type of team play rarely exists as it would require the team to setup for it in the draft.

                                        He will get a nerf, but I don't think it will take him to the gutter...

                                        flourishing new leaf

                                          Lower Io's armor by 2


                                            @Kowareta You're right, winrate is a good indicator but pickrate is also important.
                                            @Metsis I get it, but as you said, the "pub environement" make some OP abilities less OP because it's way more difficult to coordinate. But overall you're right, Tree Voley deals too much damage


                                              Nerf Alche, Ench, Gyro
                                              Buff Antimage, Spec, Brew
                                              Change Dire Jungle


                                                Nerf Tiny aghs too, that sht is volatile


                                                  Pls grimstroke skill 3rd increased movement speed and make immune attack and mars increased cast range spears , nerf io reduced movement slow ty


                                                    i dont know but it seems valve dont care about pubs winrate or pick rate anymore, they make patches based on pro games only

                                                    Yami Yugi

                                                      ^I guess it's because pro scene is the more accurate ways to find a hero's potency?

                                                      Pubs will always hammered the winrate of a difficult hero, despite it's potency being crystal clear

                                                      Also, pubs will fly high the winrate of an easy to snowball hero, despite it's flaw being crystal clear too


                                                        Ice Frog and Gaben have never cared much about the pub scene. Only rarely there are any changes based on the pub wishes. There have been a few, but those are few and far between. Almost everything is based on the competitive scene as that is the product Dota is putting out and is the best selling point and it needs to be the best version of it that it can be.

                                                        I would just really like to see more aggressive approach to the changes for the heroes that go unpicked or were played for 1-2 games. Sure the that is quite a lot of heroes, but it would be better if these heroes were more seriously buffed. But at the moment, the calendar year is filled with pro events and this limits on how hard the heroes can be changed without removing 30% of them from captain's mode...