so what? I play in HS. The AM game he was talking about the other day was played in the High Skill bracket and I practically carried that game yet I still get told im 1k.
in that topic above I have the opposite experience with the OP, which is why I am agreeing with your title.
Thing is, my games are very easy with the help of nice teammates, odd enough the same medal OP facing the opposite, which is happen normally in 1k bracket, savvy?
Yes there is. You witnessed a shitty implementation of it in my game. You can look around some recent competitive games and find a better one. Support Axe was kind of a thing for quite a bit though, he goes for hunger + couple levels of spin for trading in lane and aims to become blink+call by the midgame.
He remains underleveled so he does not really have the hp pool to justify Blademail as an absolute must. Support Axe is not expected to go for solo kills anyways. It can be still good, it's a good Axe item, but not that mandatory. The itemisation focus of support Axe, like most disable supports, is based around surviving initiation/counterinitiation and having a round 2 when disable comes off cd and, if no one else can do it, keeping the cores alive. I picked it that game since I was against Furion and PL, so Counter Helix is expected to work better (and it did) for some higher overall hero dmg, but that is the exception for disable supports, not the rule. I maintain that Blademail should have been delayed until Pipe that game.
With a Necro on the enemy team and no heals on ours Pipe becomes basically a must, maybe Glimmer or Mek can be chosen instead of it depending on the circumstances, but more likely in addition to Pipe.
I took into coinsideration you're just rusty
MMR doesn't care about being rusty though. If I were to play solo ranked in that moment I would have lost with a higher likelihood than expected by my MMR. So I made a smart move and didn't. I supported a higher ranked player to get carried. The difference with OP is I don't claim these kinds of wins are in any way indicative of my skill. I autopiloted a lot as if I was a core Axe. It was a 2k performance at best.
Speaking of OP
The AM game he was talking about the other day was played in the High Skill bracket and I practically carried that game yet I still get told im 1k
These kinds of things are what makes me state as a matter of fact, not a mere likelyhood, that OP indeed belongs in 1k. They have no understanding of what is happening in the game. They did not "practically carry the game" in the slightest.
They bungled up everything about the good AM start they had, decelerated their farm, did not push anything until 30 mins into the game, fed multiple times for no reason. Were the opposition not to get caught out of position twice like morons and were they not to go for 4-man highground push while showing Necro on the other side of the map, and if phoenix did actually use the lotus orb he had those two times it would have been appropriate to say that OP was the one who lost their team the game.
The crucial role they would have played in that prospective loss does not mean they played the same crucial role in the lucky win that actually transpired in reality. As a matter of fact, it's appropriate to say that the team won in spite of them, rather than because of them. They won on the shoulders of the Pudge who remained effective under duress of OP calling him "shit for brains" in all chat, God only knows what was happening in internal comms, so "in spite" is even more accurate.
That reminds me, hey, @OP,
Care to back your conviction up with some reasoning? Its №15: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
So basically a 1k player wins over ancients/divines does that mean that the majority live on old merits?
My friend is somewhere around 4k mmr but only play unranked and i have watched plenty of his games and the shit people at that "level" does is not what i would call very high skill.
Its unranked and i only see them one game but still.
^ I don’t understand your question, what do you mean by living in old merits?
I’m not talking about old ranking for anyone here; I’m talking about the fact that both SayingPlease and OP played with me and I’m 5.2/5.3k mmr so the average skill of the game would have been higher than if they went solo.
What i mean is maybe the gap between 2k and 4k aint that big anymore, thats what it looks like after reading this thread and my own experience after watching countless 4k games my friend play.
I will still go after someones solo mmr cause thats the best way to judge the skill of the majority of the players.
Maybe im a low 2k player or a high 3k player, but my solo mmr says 3k so thats what i am.
it's not the only case OP played HS, but MM can consist of higher with lower vs higher with lower which is seldom to happen to someone who SHOULD be a 1k trash
I’m not saying they queued with me for every high game they ever played; but they did for the games that have been anaylsed above. I’d go as far as to say they were both playing above their latent skill bracket in those games.
maybe the gap between 2k and 4k aint that big anymore
I would argue the opposite is actually true. With all the educational materials avaliable learning DOTA is now easier than ever. Median skill used to be 2800 MMR at some point, then it was 2300, now some ppl here claim it's 2100 or smth, can be wrong about that one. That means that the effort required to get to 4k is now significantly higher. Of course some ppl who climbed to 4k back and did not play often after that lag behind on their combined game prowess, but those are outliers.
When people refer to anything other than solo MMR for a metric of their prowess though, they can be dismissed, party mmr requires
number of games like 5 orders of magnitude higher to become accurate and medals incude party MMR, outside of supposedly Divine and higher, but there were reports of ppl getting there abusing party challenge tokens anyways.
^Look man you are trying way too hard to overanalyse my games and convince yourself that I am 1k in the face of everyone saying that I am probably not. The reason why I couldnt be bothered to engage you properly is because you are clearly a stubborn person who is just trying to forward their own agenda for whatever reason. I dont really care for it and honestly after seeing the axe game I would go as far to say that you are inferior to me, though one game is hardly a reasonable sample size.
RE: The AM game. You dont seem to understand the dynamic of that game at all. You talk about the pudge being some kind of god yet they had 0 impact in the key early-mid stage of the game. All the lanes were lost and my space was limited, you seem to be under this bizarre delusion that my farm decelerated because I am a poor player when in truth it decelerated because at parts of the game the radiant had pushed right up to our base, making the bottom jungle inaccessible and the top jungle dangerous at best. How it reasonable to expect me to farm at a rapid rate when I only have about 1/3 of the farming options as normal and my pattern is constantly disrupted by roaming radiant heros? I think everything you say about the AM game is frankly stupid and nitpicky and some of it is analysis which is only apparent to a spectator and practically impossible to gage in the heat of a game. Also the fact you keep asking that stupid question despite me frequently saying its impossible to respond to does nothing to further your shite arguments and only really serves to make you look like an ignorant fucking tool infront of everyone tbh.
Also the gap between a true 2k and a true 4k is absolutely noticable and quite large, but with the volume of carried ancients and people who are frankly over calibrated I wouldnt say there is much difference between someone with an archon medal and a legend/ancient medal. The differences are deffo apparent over 2.5-3 medals though which I am guessing is why Valve put the cap on party matchmaking at 3 medals apart. I have always been of the opinion that when it comes to medals everyone under divine is an unknown quantity and ive been proven correct on timeless occassions by winning against ancients but also losing to gaurdians.
well um,if you still havent escaped 1k you're definitely still 1k
until you get into 2k then people will acknowledge you as a 2k,just saying
Well I have climbed from ~950 at the start of the thread to around 1.5k now and I am still climbing so an escape is inevitable it just takes me time cause Im often not in the mental state to queue for solo ranked...
Well I have climbed from ~950 at the start of the thread to around 1.5k now and I am still climbing so an escape is inevitable it just takes me time cause Im often not in the mental state to queue for solo ranked...
You played 23 solo ranked games in last 20 days, 10 of them losses, 29 games 11 losses if we add unparsed matches for which DB does not know if they were solo ranked, so I'll just add them in a most charitable fashion. That is at best +7 games, +175 MMR on average, so where did you buy the MMR gain booster pack? Is there DOTA+ tier that I'm not aware of?
Do you see why I still keep using "they" to refer to you? You can't even put some effort into your lies, so they are too obvious.
you are clearly a stubborn person who is just trying to forward their own agenda for whatever reason
I would recommend you to look in the mirror while keeping that phrase in mind. Projection is a natural defense mechanism, yet it is utterly unhelpful in a society.
I couldn't care less that "everyone" (2 people) are saying you are above 1k. I care what arguments do they make in favor of their evaluation. I checked their arguments, I recognized the observations that led them to their conclusions, I have made the same observations with similar results, mind you, but my conclusions are different. Do you occasionally exhibit mechanics expected only from higher ranked players? Yes. But there is no consistency with it. And consistency is the only thing that matters.
You can consider yourself better than me all you want, I'm unranked at the moment, can be anywhere on the spectrum, I'm fine with that, just recognize that you are at the 1k point and finally enable your climb.
Speaking of recognising, have you recognised that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? And thus, №16: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
^Well something has gone wrong with your calculation because as I said ive gained about 300 since i made this thread. Mostly childish shit that avoids the more serious parts of what I wrote but thats nothing new... Also I found what you said about consistency interesting since its always been my biggest fault as a player, but the fact that you said those mechanics are exclusive to higher ranked players surely implies that I am one or rather should be?
Also there is a strong difference between being stubborn when proving oneself is the agenda than attempting to put someone down...
^I said ~950 cause I think it was about 950. Maybe it was 1000 idk. About 300-400 mmr who gives a fuck. Again you focus on the least relevent thing out of everything. You are a very immature person.
I just woke up so I'm gonna have to answer only what I did read.
@ SayingpleaseHelps
I don't follow pro scene much, and I don't understand every decison they make, so for me, support Axe is a no-no.
Someone said 2k vs 4k is not a big difference:
Pretty big difference actually. My main MMR was always in high 3k (3700-3900) and peaking at low 4k (4000-4300)
I literally stomp people even 1000 MMR below that, let alone flat 2k mmr players and below.
If anyone thinks that MMR isn't accurate, you are free to open my account and you will quickly realise that I literally climbed from literally sub 1k mmr range to 3.2k currently.
I'm quite sure that MMR works well, and if anyone is not capable of climbing that's gonna be because of him not being good enough.
Stats-wise, I had over 69% winrate playing solo up from 2k to 3k mmr in last few months. Now let's say if someone who;s 5k or 6k plays in 2k or above? Easily 90% winrate which has been proven multiple times already anyways.
@ Parma
You have to play more of solo ranked. You can't claim you are 3k if you can't back that up with proofs. Maybe you are playing better than 1k mmr, but no one will give you credit for it if you can't climb.
In fact, the current MMR you're in is so easy that playing at least 4 games in a row would give you aprox. 1000 mmr boost in a 10 day span if you win all games (which is easily doable) - or even winning close to 4 games would give you at least 600-700 MMR boost which is still respectable.
This thread is old more than 2 weeks, and as a matter of fact you've climbed 200 or 300 mmr by now, which is just not enough to prove anything.
I was Archon III when you actually started this topic, which was like 2.7k MMR. Now I'm 3200 MMR and Legend 1. That's what I'd call some decent difference in MMR. And bear in mind thay 2.7 > 3.2k is still at least a bit harder than 1.3k to 2k mmr.
the fact that you said those mechanics are exclusive to higher ranked players surely implies that I am one or rather should be
Learn logic please, it's so ez you have no idea. Do you think there is something physically stopping low ranked player from using certain mechanics? Are they incapable of using creep aggro? Or keeping their eyes on the timer to ward on time with previous wards expiring? Or rotating the moment their timing kicks in? NO, IT'S ALL JUST BUTTON PRESSES. Any player can perform any neat trick if they focus on it. It's just there is this expectation of something the AVERAGE player in the bracket is capable of performing regularly.
Like a 1k player (looking at you OP) may be aware that last hits are a thing; 2ks are expected to group to contest objectives; 3ks are expected to recognise when to group for objectives and when trade, 4ks are expected to move around the map to hinder enemies gameplan and not only to facilitate theirs; 5ks are expected to adjust their gameplan to situation and capitalise on timings; 6ks are expected to punish every mistake they notice and notice every mistake that is made, and 7ks are legit playing in prediction mode instead of perception mode. Those are just my version of average expectations, these are not iron clad facts. They can and will be broken all the time. It's all about consistency.
Some 1ks may be totally capable of predicting how the game goes 15 minutes in advance, but that would not do them much good coz they have Parkinson's desease and are incapable of accurate control input. Luckily, you are not one of those cases, you can do one thing on a 2k-3k level consistently and have no idea about anything else.
We are going real fast here, soon all the natural numbers will be counted. In the meantime №17: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
I said ~950 cause I think it was about 950. Maybe it was 1000 idk. About 300-400 mmr who gives a fuck.
can come from a person with a first world education, even enrolled in a fucking university is beyond me. Which is why I don't believe a word of yours. Is that how they teach you history as well? "So, umm, Columbus started his expedition to find a western route to reach India in, like, 1300-1600 A.D., who gives a fuck". Anyone who knows what numbers are. Which explains your compulsive spendings on DOTA. "Ten pounds, two hundred pounds, who gives a fuck".
Some 1ks may be totally capable of predicting how the game goes 15 minutes in advance, but that would not do them much good coz they have Parkinson's desease and are incapable of accurate control input. Luckily, you are not one of those cases, you can do one thing on a 2k-3k level consistently and have no idea about anything else.
What if they are an actually smart player stopped from climbing by a legit disability. I can easily see someone like that going pretty far on the knowledge skills due to their experience, while remaining at the very floor on the execution, coz they may not even have arms to press the "Find Match" button.
Honestly up until 4k mmr it's all about how well you execute. Your decison making can be lacking, but if you are strong laner and if you can click things well, you will get to at least 3.5k MMR.
While I can respect someone's knowledge related DOta 2, that doesn't really make him a candidate for being a good player.
That's exactly my point. There might be exceptions in all brackets that are spectacular at some other aspect of the game, but it won't do you any good until you get your basics for the bracket down. The opposite happened to the OP - they got their basics down and failed to move further. It all averages in the end, but knowing that or refusing that won't make any individual happier.
There's difference between knowing basics and mastering them. If you want to be good at something, you can't just be satisfied with knowing how things work.
There’s a very simple way to settle this. Parmaviolets, I challenge you to swap accounts with me for a week. I’ll disable my Steam guard and make the necessary security changes. My account is currently 3.2K MMR, with normal behavior score. Show us that you won’t completely fall flat and drop my account down to 2K. I await your reply.
There’s a very simple way to settle this. Parmaviolets, I challenge you to swap accounts with me for a week. I’ll disable my Steam guard and make the necessary security changes. My account is currently 3.2K MMR, with normal behavior score. Show us that you won’t completely fall flat and drop my account down to 2K. I await your reply.
I already did this for a few games on Ver's smurf account and the way I say it I dont need to change acc to play 3k games cause my unranked games are HS... HS being around 3k last time I checked. Just seems like a big waste of time to me!
OP isn't really interested in being 3k, they are only interested in finding an excuse to justify them being like a 3k right now, with no additional work. Normal games have way higher margin for MMR spread, allowing for up to +-2000 MMR to get teamed up as long as the averages are close. With that in mind, OP had 5 solo normal games in HS during all their history of playing dota. Only one of them during this thread being up. This one https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4135552808. It's a turbo game.
As I said, they lie all the time, and aren't even good at it. Another piece of proof of a learning disability isn't it? I mean, I came up with this
If you don't play enough consecutive games on a single server you are not eligible to appear on leaderboads no matter how high on the MMRs you are. I'm actually 65413 MMR on my smurf, the world just does not know yet.
shit after like 15 seconds of refining the idea and it is literally irrefutable. And I'm not even a professional liar or anything.
When the world is against you, means something is definitely wrong with you. It's OK to take those insult/comments like a champ than keep living in denial. It wont do you any good. Try to learn from positive streamer and see how they react to situations, I'm sure that would helps a lot than keep ranting and hoping that people will be on the same page as you. If that happens, social classes won't exist in our society.
So I'm a bit salty about that Axe game of mine that got highlighted here, so I will come up with a contrived reason to bring up a much nicer game of mine into the spotlight. And that contrived reason is <spins the wheel of contrived reasons>: Lets compare my recent PL game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4140290461 with OPs recent PL game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4140506716. OPs game is a party one, 3+2, so better early and midgame skirmish coordination is expected with maybe some lategame coordination problems when both stacks need to work with each other.
Right off the bat we can notice the lineup differences. In my game i pick PL early with only Jakiro being known on the enemy team and end up facing Tiny, Invoker, Warlock, Jakiro and Clinkz for some reason. So 3 mild counters and 1 real counter. I'll end up in a heavily contested lane vs a Warlock+Tiny, while having SD support myself, yet I manage to get away with 2 regen sets, in hindsight I should have gotten 3 for the expected more oppressive offlane of Tiny+Jakiro.
OP, on the other hand, has 5th pick on their team and picks PL into a bunch of hopeless 3-item PL food heroes. Enemy react with mid SF, another 3-item PL food hero, but quite a counter before that.
OP laning They are supported by a Jakiro and are decently contested by Centaur+Wyvern, so when OP gets gone on lvl2, fails to dodge anything with Dopple and barely survives with 15% HP they must be really regretting that single tango set of regen they got. If they are capable of recognizing the problem that is. But they are not, they get boots right away, ensuring they will never outtrade the enemy. Having a 2-1-2-1 (lvl6), with 47/8 cs score and 0-0-0 kill contribution at 10 munutes, OP ends their moderately contested laning phase quite successfully (even if they are recognised as losing it by DB) only to die under tower to Centaur ulty 30 seconds later.
My laning phase goes quite differently due to Tiny's damage advantage, I'm forced to split the wave and grab what I can or trade unfavourably to force tree grab charges. Being bad on PL I cancel quite a few harass opportunities with Phantom rush, but I still try supporting SDs harass attempts. Catching Warlock trying to harass in a pincer our lane secures first blood with poison. Misunderstanding SDs intent to stack on our way to shrine I leave him without regen. FeelsBadMan. At 10 minutes I finish my heavily contested laning with questionable result: 40 cs (losing 11 more available in that lane according to gosu.ai, fwiw), 0/0/2 kill contribution, lvl6 (tied for 4th) and best networth on my team (still 3rd overall and 1,2k behind the Invoker, who crushes the mid SK). This is considered a drawn lane by DB. Right after that I dodge warlock ult with W when a fight breaks out with an extra rotation for both sides. We trade 2 for 1 in our favor as a result.
OP 10-20 mins Maxing their Spirit Lance despite being incapable of appearing in a lane against Double Edge spam, Shadowraze spam of even Drow Silence OP smartly rotates to their offlane jungle to finish their Diffusal at 16 mins. Their team is up 6k by this point, Drow+Lina lane got decimated bottom, how do you throw a win like that away. Carefully avoiding any engagements, since Diffusal is a farming item I assume, OP rotates to push top T1 just in time to finish 20 minutes mark with 121/12 cs, 1/1/2 kill participation, lvl 13(joint 4th) and sitting within 1k from the top networth. The skillbuild is 4-2-4-2, but otherwise, decent for a moderately contested lane start. OP joins an unnecessary fight near enemy top shrine with no vision and dies 30 seconds later to all the stray AOE. Having no concept of learning from experience, OP engages a low HP SF with BKB next to the enemy shrine and dies to all the stray AOE again not 2 minutes afterwards.
My 10-20 mins With eaindrops and PT on str I'm not afraid of tiny, so I stay top. A good engage and a mistake from warlock results in our team taking two kills in an unfavourable 3v4 engagement and only losing 1. Warlock walks up alone later on and dies, wasting his ult. Enemies keep rotating top, but I forgot to buy a tp, so I can't just go bot and push their safelane tower fast enough. Staying top results in my first death at 16:40. I rotate bot to stop clinkz push, but Jakiro rotates again and they push the tower anyways. I finish Diffusal just in time for the 20 min mark, but my shitty map movements cost me dearly, leaving me with 92/18 cs, 4-1-4 kill contribution, lvl 13 (third on the map) and 5th on networth, 3k behind the Invoker. The game is overall even on gold.
OP 20-30 mins For some reason OP decides that having Diffusal Yasha is enough to teamfight the enemy so they join a forced attempt to push T2 mid. Somehow that works and OP even dodges a raze with W to survive with 200 HP. They finish manta at 26:30, regen at a shrine, dropping +str items in backpack and farm some offlane jungle on the retreat. It's legit way better than anything seen in their solo games. OP finishes the T2 top towers and runs from all the stray AOE, but fail to perform exactly what I just praised them for on the retreat, right on time for the 30 min mark. OP has 185/12 cs, 3/3/5 kill contribution, lvl 18(tied for 4th) and sit within 2k of the top Net Worth. They have no tp, as in majority of the game, but they do have a dust. All enemy outer towers, both shrines and mid T3 are dead, OP has all T2 standing and are 9k ahead. How can they lose? Trying to defend top T2 from Lina while being on 30% hp, OP feeds a death within a minute from that.
My 20-30 mins I waste some time trying to convince my team to gank voker who is lingering mid, but he rotates top so i take the opportunity (Orchid Clinkz is showing top as well) to push the mid T1. I keep harassing enemies push attempt mid with illisions while farming nearby jungle. They back off, but then return and I get caught like a retard by an obvious rotation around the tower. I keep dodging Clinkz for a while waiting for my Manta, which I get right in time for the 30 min mark along with missing two kills on a coutergank coz of not getting detection. I have 175/19 cs, 4/2/4 kill contribution, lvl 16 (6th on the map) at that point, still 4k behind Invoker on net worth. tje game is 3k in our favor with both teams having 3 outer towers standing.
OP 30+mins OP goes for and Aegis push with Diffusal, Manta and 4,7k gold in bank, fail to dodge anything with either manta or W and promptly lose both Aegis and life to all the AOE.(PT on Agi). They go for another push with 5k in the bank right away. Enemy Centaur has Aghs+Heart at this point, OP takes more dmg than they deal to him during ult. Obviously failing the push, OP retreats through the jungle (having no TP) and dies to SB+Hex SF. OP's team loses the first rax in the game, mid range to the centaur and OP buys back after that. Their banked gold drops back to 4,2 k. They fail to dodge Aghs SF ulty with W and die back just in time for the 40 minute mark. OP has 223/12 cs, 6/7/7 kill contribution, 6k behind the top networth and lvl 22 (5th overall). Their team got 2 raxed and is 8k behind. After the respawn OP, as a 2-item PL, buys a Skadi and goes for a bot push while Lina takes their last rax for megas. In a stupid fight at their Secret shop OP dies again and the game is over at 46:21. OP ends the game with 9/8/8, fourth on the networth, with third HD and top BD on their team, having absorbed less damage than their 19/9/11 Invoker.
My 30+mins I start pushing out lanes without any fear, Invoker rotates to stop it. At some point Clinkz feeds his life away, failing to recognise the power of Manta. Enemy take a fight with golem and push mid T3, but lose 4 on the retreat. I go for Rosh with a DD and, despite my warnings, SK dies to Rosh AOE there, but aegis is taken and heart is finished a minute later at 37 mins. With PL 3-item complete it's finally time to push. At 40 mins I sit at 256/19 cs, 8/2/10 kill contribution, lvl 24 (tied for second after exp talent SD) and second on networth 2,5k behind Invoker. Our team is 2k ahead at that point. Enemies defend twice with buybacks, but the 3-item PL can not be stopped. The moment they take fight on the map they lose 2 rax, our buybacks secure our defense and a second Rosh and it is all over at 53:29. I end the game with 20/3/13 score, first on the networth, with highest hero and building dmg of the team and the highest dmg tanked of course.
He is playing HS-VHS doode
@ Espada
Well his Axe performance was questionable at best
My dream come true boys! I'm not Archon V trash anymore!
this part is true
When I saw your stats in that particular game I can tell, you are better than me in CS-wise
I am not one of those telling you that you are 1k, you can count on me
MMR is hidden ATM, but medal shows our best performance, and you deserve that medal IMO
Your WR shows that you are still climbing
He said trash for a reason, which related to your claim that 1k is harder than 3k, in the other way around
https://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2018-09-26-i-wanna-cry-my-ass-out?page=1#comment-1251003
in that topic above I have the opposite experience with the OP, which is why I am agreeing with your title.
Thing is, my games are very easy with the help of nice teammates, odd enough the same medal OP facing the opposite, which is happen normally in 1k bracket, savvy?
Mmr is not hidden. They both played higher than what they should have coz they queued with me in both cases.
Doesn’t take a genius to work that one out.
He remains underleveled so he does not really have the hp pool to justify Blademail as an absolute must. Support Axe is not expected to go for solo kills anyways. It can be still good, it's a good Axe item, but not that mandatory. The itemisation focus of support Axe, like most disable supports, is based around surviving initiation/counterinitiation and having a round 2 when disable comes off cd and, if no one else can do it, keeping the cores alive. I picked it that game since I was against Furion and PL, so Counter Helix is expected to work better (and it did) for some higher overall hero dmg, but that is the exception for disable supports, not the rule. I maintain that Blademail should have been delayed until Pipe that game.
With a Necro on the enemy team and no heals on ours Pipe becomes basically a must, maybe Glimmer or Mek can be chosen instead of it depending on the circumstances, but more likely in addition to Pipe.
MMR doesn't care about being rusty though. If I were to play solo ranked in that moment I would have lost with a higher likelihood than expected by my MMR. So I made a smart move and didn't. I supported a higher ranked player to get carried. The difference with OP is I don't claim these kinds of wins are in any way indicative of my skill. I autopiloted a lot as if I was a core Axe. It was a 2k performance at best.Speaking of OP
These kinds of things are what makes me state as a matter of fact, not a mere likelyhood, that OP indeed belongs in 1k. They have no understanding of what is happening in the game. They did not "practically carry the game" in the slightest.They bungled up everything about the good AM start they had, decelerated their farm, did not push anything until 30 mins into the game, fed multiple times for no reason. Were the opposition not to get caught out of position twice like morons and were they not to go for 4-man highground push while showing Necro on the other side of the map, and if phoenix did actually use the lotus orb he had those two times it would have been appropriate to say that OP was the one who lost their team the game.
The crucial role they would have played in that prospective loss does not mean they played the same crucial role in the lucky win that actually transpired in reality. As a matter of fact, it's appropriate to say that the team won in spite of them, rather than because of them. They won on the shoulders of the Pudge who remained effective under duress of OP calling him "shit for brains" in all chat, God only knows what was happening in internal comms, so "in spite" is even more accurate.
That reminds me, hey, @OP,
Care to back your conviction up with some reasoning? Its №15: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
@eXceL
So basically a 1k player wins over ancients/divines does that mean that the majority live on old merits?
My friend is somewhere around 4k mmr but only play unranked and i have watched plenty of his games and the shit people at that "level" does is not what i would call very high skill.
Its unranked and i only see them one game but still.
^ I don’t understand your question, what do you mean by living in old merits?
I’m not talking about old ranking for anyone here; I’m talking about the fact that both SayingPlease and OP played with me and I’m 5.2/5.3k mmr so the average skill of the game would have been higher than if they went solo.
What i mean is maybe the gap between 2k and 4k aint that big anymore, thats what it looks like after reading this thread and my own experience after watching countless 4k games my friend play.
I will still go after someones solo mmr cause thats the best way to judge the skill of the majority of the players.
Maybe im a low 2k player or a high 3k player, but my solo mmr says 3k so thats what i am.
there is a huge difference between 2k and 4k mmrs, one won 80 ranked games in a row compared to the other
@.eXceL nope
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4135552808
it's not the only case OP played HS, but MM can consist of higher with lower vs higher with lower which is seldom to happen to someone who SHOULD be a 1k trash
@ Espada
I’m not saying they queued with me for every high game they ever played; but they did for the games that have been anaylsed above. I’d go as far as to say they were both playing above their latent skill bracket in those games.
shut up 5k dog
Good one
K blunt
ty u 5k dog, ez scrub
Blunt are you banned again?
no, just playing on other accounts
@varjager
I would argue the opposite is actually true. With all the educational materials avaliable learning DOTA is now easier than ever. Median skill used to be 2800 MMR at some point, then it was 2300, now some ppl here claim it's 2100 or smth, can be wrong about that one. That means that the effort required to get to 4k is now significantly higher. Of course some ppl who climbed to 4k back and did not play often after that lag behind on their combined game prowess, but those are outliers.When people refer to anything other than solo MMR for a metric of their prowess though, they can be dismissed, party mmr requires
number of games like 5 orders of magnitude higher to become accurate and medals incude party MMR, outside of supposedly Divine and higher, but there were reports of ppl getting there abusing party challenge tokens anyways.
^Look man you are trying way too hard to overanalyse my games and convince yourself that I am 1k in the face of everyone saying that I am probably not. The reason why I couldnt be bothered to engage you properly is because you are clearly a stubborn person who is just trying to forward their own agenda for whatever reason. I dont really care for it and honestly after seeing the axe game I would go as far to say that you are inferior to me, though one game is hardly a reasonable sample size.
RE: The AM game. You dont seem to understand the dynamic of that game at all. You talk about the pudge being some kind of god yet they had 0 impact in the key early-mid stage of the game. All the lanes were lost and my space was limited, you seem to be under this bizarre delusion that my farm decelerated because I am a poor player when in truth it decelerated because at parts of the game the radiant had pushed right up to our base, making the bottom jungle inaccessible and the top jungle dangerous at best. How it reasonable to expect me to farm at a rapid rate when I only have about 1/3 of the farming options as normal and my pattern is constantly disrupted by roaming radiant heros? I think everything you say about the AM game is frankly stupid and nitpicky and some of it is analysis which is only apparent to a spectator and practically impossible to gage in the heat of a game. Also the fact you keep asking that stupid question despite me frequently saying its impossible to respond to does nothing to further your shite arguments and only really serves to make you look like an ignorant fucking tool infront of everyone tbh.
Also the gap between a true 2k and a true 4k is absolutely noticable and quite large, but with the volume of carried ancients and people who are frankly over calibrated I wouldnt say there is much difference between someone with an archon medal and a legend/ancient medal. The differences are deffo apparent over 2.5-3 medals though which I am guessing is why Valve put the cap on party matchmaking at 3 medals apart. I have always been of the opinion that when it comes to medals everyone under divine is an unknown quantity and ive been proven correct on timeless occassions by winning against ancients but also losing to gaurdians.
well um,if you still havent escaped 1k you're definitely still 1k
until you get into 2k then people will acknowledge you as a 2k,just saying
i see
ye same with me,when i'm tired/angry i dont wanna queue at all lol since its gonna lose
@ OP
You played 23 solo ranked games in last 20 days, 10 of them losses, 29 games 11 losses if we add unparsed matches for which DB does not know if they were solo ranked, so I'll just add them in a most charitable fashion. That is at best +7 games, +175 MMR on average, so where did you buy the MMR gain booster pack? Is there DOTA+ tier that I'm not aware of?Do you see why I still keep using "they" to refer to you? You can't even put some effort into your lies, so they are too obvious.
I would recommend you to look in the mirror while keeping that phrase in mind. Projection is a natural defense mechanism, yet it is utterly unhelpful in a society.I couldn't care less that "everyone" (2 people) are saying you are above 1k. I care what arguments do they make in favor of their evaluation. I checked their arguments, I recognized the observations that led them to their conclusions, I have made the same observations with similar results, mind you, but my conclusions are different. Do you occasionally exhibit mechanics expected only from higher ranked players? Yes. But there is no consistency with it. And consistency is the only thing that matters.
You can consider yourself better than me all you want, I'm unranked at the moment, can be anywhere on the spectrum, I'm fine with that, just recognize that you are at the 1k point and finally enable your climb.
Speaking of recognising, have you recognised that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? And thus, №16: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
^Well something has gone wrong with your calculation because as I said ive gained about 300 since i made this thread. Mostly childish shit that avoids the more serious parts of what I wrote but thats nothing new... Also I found what you said about consistency interesting since its always been my biggest fault as a player, but the fact that you said those mechanics are exclusive to higher ranked players surely implies that I am one or rather should be?
Also there is a strong difference between being stubborn when proving oneself is the agenda than attempting to put someone down...
Can anyone spot the difference here? But sure, it's my math that is wrong.
^I said ~950 cause I think it was about 950. Maybe it was 1000 idk. About 300-400 mmr who gives a fuck. Again you focus on the least relevent thing out of everything. You are a very immature person.
I just woke up so I'm gonna have to answer only what I did read.
@ SayingpleaseHelps
I don't follow pro scene much, and I don't understand every decison they make, so for me, support Axe is a no-no.
Someone said 2k vs 4k is not a big difference:
Pretty big difference actually. My main MMR was always in high 3k (3700-3900) and peaking at low 4k (4000-4300)
I literally stomp people even 1000 MMR below that, let alone flat 2k mmr players and below.
If anyone thinks that MMR isn't accurate, you are free to open my account and you will quickly realise that I literally climbed from literally sub 1k mmr range to 3.2k currently.
I'm quite sure that MMR works well, and if anyone is not capable of climbing that's gonna be because of him not being good enough.
Stats-wise, I had over 69% winrate playing solo up from 2k to 3k mmr in last few months. Now let's say if someone who;s 5k or 6k plays in 2k or above? Easily 90% winrate which has been proven multiple times already anyways.
@ Parma
You have to play more of solo ranked. You can't claim you are 3k if you can't back that up with proofs. Maybe you are playing better than 1k mmr, but no one will give you credit for it if you can't climb.
In fact, the current MMR you're in is so easy that playing at least 4 games in a row would give you aprox. 1000 mmr boost in a 10 day span if you win all games (which is easily doable) - or even winning close to 4 games would give you at least 600-700 MMR boost which is still respectable.
This thread is old more than 2 weeks, and as a matter of fact you've climbed 200 or 300 mmr by now, which is just not enough to prove anything.
I was Archon III when you actually started this topic, which was like 2.7k MMR. Now I'm 3200 MMR and Legend 1. That's what I'd call some decent difference in MMR. And bear in mind thay 2.7 > 3.2k is still at least a bit harder than 1.3k to 2k mmr.
yes that's what my wife did too when I point out her mistakes, drifting....
@OP
Learn logic please, it's so ez you have no idea. Do you think there is something physically stopping low ranked player from using certain mechanics? Are they incapable of using creep aggro? Or keeping their eyes on the timer to ward on time with previous wards expiring? Or rotating the moment their timing kicks in? NO, IT'S ALL JUST BUTTON PRESSES. Any player can perform any neat trick if they focus on it. It's just there is this expectation of something the AVERAGE player in the bracket is capable of performing regularly.
Like a 1k player (looking at you OP) may be aware that last hits are a thing; 2ks are expected to group to contest objectives; 3ks are expected to recognise when to group for objectives and when trade, 4ks are expected to move around the map to hinder enemies gameplan and not only to facilitate theirs; 5ks are expected to adjust their gameplan to situation and capitalise on timings; 6ks are expected to punish every mistake they notice and notice every mistake that is made, and 7ks are legit playing in prediction mode instead of perception mode. Those are just my version of average expectations, these are not iron clad facts. They can and will be broken all the time. It's all about consistency.
Some 1ks may be totally capable of predicting how the game goes 15 minutes in advance, but that would not do them much good coz they have Parkinson's desease and are incapable of accurate control input. Luckily, you are not one of those cases, you can do one thing on a 2k-3k level consistently and have no idea about anything else.
We are going real fast here, soon all the natural numbers will be counted. In the meantime №17: Can you provide anything to corroborate your original assertion about being on the level of 3k players? Outside of your atrocious performance in those 4 games and getting carried in parties that you interpreted as doing well, but anyone with eyes saw as being a shitter? Anything that may be considered methodologically sound?
How this
can come from a person with a first world education, even enrolled in a fucking university is beyond me. Which is why I don't believe a word of yours. Is that how they teach you history as well? "So, umm, Columbus started his expedition to find a western route to reach India in, like, 1300-1600 A.D., who gives a fuck". Anyone who knows what numbers are. Which explains your compulsive spendings on DOTA. "Ten pounds, two hundred pounds, who gives a fuck".
ouch.
^
Ye that was a bit too far. I doubt any 1k mmr is cabale of predicting how the game goes 15 minutes in advance. xddd
I'm not capable of that, let alone someone 2000-3000 below me.
I'd say that comes later in 5k and 6k+
What if they are an actually smart player stopped from climbing by a legit disability. I can easily see someone like that going pretty far on the knowledge skills due to their experience, while remaining at the very floor on the execution, coz they may not even have arms to press the "Find Match" button.
Honestly up until 4k mmr it's all about how well you execute. Your decison making can be lacking, but if you are strong laner and if you can click things well, you will get to at least 3.5k MMR.
While I can respect someone's knowledge related DOta 2, that doesn't really make him a candidate for being a good player.
That's exactly my point. There might be exceptions in all brackets that are spectacular at some other aspect of the game, but it won't do you any good until you get your basics for the bracket down. The opposite happened to the OP - they got their basics down and failed to move further. It all averages in the end, but knowing that or refusing that won't make any individual happier.
^
There's difference between knowing basics and mastering them. If you want to be good at something, you can't just be satisfied with knowing how things work.
Oh how I wish OP would heed that advice.
Im here to bumb this shit
I’m 9k even though my mmr does not show it. If I wasn’t so lazy i would play rank and get to 9k
There’s a very simple way to settle this. Parmaviolets, I challenge you to swap accounts with me for a week. I’ll disable my Steam guard and make the necessary security changes. My account is currently 3.2K MMR, with normal behavior score. Show us that you won’t completely fall flat and drop my account down to 2K. I await your reply.
go Ancient and prove them wrong, easy
or maybe just add your stars
your unranked games are in hs WOW dude ur so fucking good lmao. u know what the biggest waste of time is? u playing dota. u will never get good
That's exactly what you're doing now haha
OP isn't really interested in being 3k, they are only interested in finding an excuse to justify them being like a 3k right now, with no additional work. Normal games have way higher margin for MMR spread, allowing for up to +-2000 MMR to get teamed up as long as the averages are close. With that in mind, OP had 5 solo normal games in HS during all their history of playing dota. Only one of them during this thread being up. This one https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4135552808. It's a turbo game.
As I said, they lie all the time, and aren't even good at it. Another piece of proof of a learning disability isn't it? I mean, I came up with this
shit after like 15 seconds of refining the idea and it is literally irrefutable. And I'm not even a professional liar or anything.When the world is against you, means something is definitely wrong with you. It's OK to take those insult/comments like a champ than keep living in denial. It wont do you any good. Try to learn from positive streamer and see how they react to situations, I'm sure that would helps a lot than keep ranting and hoping that people will be on the same page as you. If that happens, social classes won't exist in our society.
^All of my most recent solo unranked games were high skill. I have just reached the bracket in the past month or two.
So I'm a bit salty about that Axe game of mine that got highlighted here, so I will come up with a contrived reason to bring up a much nicer game of mine into the spotlight. And that contrived reason is <spins the wheel of contrived reasons>: Lets compare my recent PL game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4140290461 with OPs recent PL game https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4140506716. OPs game is a party one, 3+2, so better early and midgame skirmish coordination is expected with maybe some lategame coordination problems when both stacks need to work with each other.
Right off the bat we can notice the lineup differences. In my game i pick PL early with only Jakiro being known on the enemy team and end up facing Tiny, Invoker, Warlock, Jakiro and Clinkz for some reason. So 3 mild counters and 1 real counter. I'll end up in a heavily contested lane vs a Warlock+Tiny, while having SD support myself, yet I manage to get away with 2 regen sets, in hindsight I should have gotten 3 for the expected more oppressive offlane of Tiny+Jakiro.
OP, on the other hand, has 5th pick on their team and picks PL into a bunch of hopeless 3-item PL food heroes. Enemy react with mid SF, another 3-item PL food hero, but quite a counter before that.
OP laning They are supported by a Jakiro and are decently contested by Centaur+Wyvern, so when OP gets gone on lvl2, fails to dodge anything with Dopple and barely survives with 15% HP they must be really regretting that single tango set of regen they got. If they are capable of recognizing the problem that is. But they are not, they get boots right away, ensuring they will never outtrade the enemy. Having a 2-1-2-1 (lvl6), with 47/8 cs score and 0-0-0 kill contribution at 10 munutes, OP ends their moderately contested laning phase quite successfully (even if they are recognised as losing it by DB) only to die under tower to Centaur ulty 30 seconds later.
My laning phase goes quite differently due to Tiny's damage advantage, I'm forced to split the wave and grab what I can or trade unfavourably to force tree grab charges. Being bad on PL I cancel quite a few harass opportunities with Phantom rush, but I still try supporting SDs harass attempts. Catching Warlock trying to harass in a pincer our lane secures first blood with poison. Misunderstanding SDs intent to stack on our way to shrine I leave him without regen. FeelsBadMan. At 10 minutes I finish my heavily contested laning with questionable result: 40 cs (losing 11 more available in that lane according to gosu.ai, fwiw), 0/0/2 kill contribution, lvl6 (tied for 4th) and best networth on my team (still 3rd overall and 1,2k behind the Invoker, who crushes the mid SK). This is considered a drawn lane by DB. Right after that I dodge warlock ult with W when a fight breaks out with an extra rotation for both sides. We trade 2 for 1 in our favor as a result.
OP 10-20 mins Maxing their Spirit Lance despite being incapable of appearing in a lane against Double Edge spam, Shadowraze spam of even Drow Silence OP smartly rotates to their offlane jungle to finish their Diffusal at 16 mins. Their team is up 6k by this point, Drow+Lina lane got decimated bottom, how do you throw a win like that away. Carefully avoiding any engagements, since Diffusal is a farming item I assume, OP rotates to push top T1 just in time to finish 20 minutes mark with 121/12 cs, 1/1/2 kill participation, lvl 13(joint 4th) and sitting within 1k from the top networth. The skillbuild is 4-2-4-2, but otherwise, decent for a moderately contested lane start. OP joins an unnecessary fight near enemy top shrine with no vision and dies 30 seconds later to all the stray AOE. Having no concept of learning from experience, OP engages a low HP SF with BKB next to the enemy shrine and dies to all the stray AOE again not 2 minutes afterwards.
My 10-20 mins With eaindrops and PT on str I'm not afraid of tiny, so I stay top. A good engage and a mistake from warlock results in our team taking two kills in an unfavourable 3v4 engagement and only losing 1. Warlock walks up alone later on and dies, wasting his ult. Enemies keep rotating top, but I forgot to buy a tp, so I can't just go bot and push their safelane tower fast enough. Staying top results in my first death at 16:40. I rotate bot to stop clinkz push, but Jakiro rotates again and they push the tower anyways. I finish Diffusal just in time for the 20 min mark, but my shitty map movements cost me dearly, leaving me with 92/18 cs, 4-1-4 kill contribution, lvl 13 (third on the map) and 5th on networth, 3k behind the Invoker. The game is overall even on gold.
OP 20-30 mins For some reason OP decides that having Diffusal Yasha is enough to teamfight the enemy so they join a forced attempt to push T2 mid. Somehow that works and OP even dodges a raze with W to survive with 200 HP. They finish manta at 26:30, regen at a shrine, dropping +str items in backpack and farm some offlane jungle on the retreat. It's legit way better than anything seen in their solo games. OP finishes the T2 top towers and runs from all the stray AOE, but fail to perform exactly what I just praised them for on the retreat, right on time for the 30 min mark. OP has 185/12 cs, 3/3/5 kill contribution, lvl 18(tied for 4th) and sit within 2k of the top Net Worth. They have no tp, as in majority of the game, but they do have a dust. All enemy outer towers, both shrines and mid T3 are dead, OP has all T2 standing and are 9k ahead. How can they lose? Trying to defend top T2 from Lina while being on 30% hp, OP feeds a death within a minute from that.
My 20-30 mins I waste some time trying to convince my team to gank voker who is lingering mid, but he rotates top so i take the opportunity (Orchid Clinkz is showing top as well) to push the mid T1. I keep harassing enemies push attempt mid with illisions while farming nearby jungle. They back off, but then return and I get caught like a retard by an obvious rotation around the tower. I keep dodging Clinkz for a while waiting for my Manta, which I get right in time for the 30 min mark along with missing two kills on a coutergank coz of not getting detection. I have 175/19 cs, 4/2/4 kill contribution, lvl 16 (6th on the map) at that point, still 4k behind Invoker on net worth. tje game is 3k in our favor with both teams having 3 outer towers standing.
OP 30+mins OP goes for and Aegis push with Diffusal, Manta and 4,7k gold in bank, fail to dodge anything with either manta or W and promptly lose both Aegis and life to all the AOE.(PT on Agi). They go for another push with 5k in the bank right away. Enemy Centaur has Aghs+Heart at this point, OP takes more dmg than they deal to him during ult. Obviously failing the push, OP retreats through the jungle (having no TP) and dies to SB+Hex SF. OP's team loses the first rax in the game, mid range to the centaur and OP buys back after that. Their banked gold drops back to 4,2 k. They fail to dodge Aghs SF ulty with W and die back just in time for the 40 minute mark. OP has 223/12 cs, 6/7/7 kill contribution, 6k behind the top networth and lvl 22 (5th overall). Their team got 2 raxed and is 8k behind. After the respawn OP, as a 2-item PL, buys a Skadi and goes for a bot push while Lina takes their last rax for megas. In a stupid fight at their Secret shop OP dies again and the game is over at 46:21. OP ends the game with 9/8/8, fourth on the networth, with third HD and top BD on their team, having absorbed less damage than their 19/9/11 Invoker.
My 30+mins I start pushing out lanes without any fear, Invoker rotates to stop it. At some point Clinkz feeds his life away, failing to recognise the power of Manta. Enemy take a fight with golem and push mid T3, but lose 4 on the retreat. I go for Rosh with a DD and, despite my warnings, SK dies to Rosh AOE there, but aegis is taken and heart is finished a minute later at 37 mins. With PL 3-item complete it's finally time to push. At 40 mins I sit at 256/19 cs, 8/2/10 kill contribution, lvl 24 (tied for second after exp talent SD) and second on networth 2,5k behind Invoker. Our team is 2k ahead at that point. Enemies defend twice with buybacks, but the 3-item PL can not be stopped. The moment they take fight on the map they lose 2 rax, our buybacks secure our defense and a second Rosh and it is all over at 53:29. I end the game with 20/3/13 score, first on the networth, with highest hero and building dmg of the team and the highest dmg tanked of course.
No differences in skill here.