General DiscussionMirana lvl 25

Actually better

You gotta leap to get that 100 attack speed, you usually save Leap for escape too.
3 arrows means more vision and people have to dodge into a narrow space and shit.

Arrows is just the safer choice because 2 extra arrows won't hurt but YOLOing for 100 atk spd might be.

Mainly the vision from 3 arrows.

leap got nerfed in duration wise guy

in late game, that arrow deals important stuns than +100 atk speed from leap. since all your carries probably farmed up well. and 2-3 sec stuns UNEXPECTED will GG the game.

leap is probably better unless u are playing the magical mirana where vision is important

@.snakemonger The duration change was made a couple of patches ago and this switch to arrow has been in like the last month.

The leap attack speed is also good for pushing objectives. I don't know ill probably just stick with the 100 attack speed. Wouldn't know what to do with the extra vision anyways.

Arrow has always been better. Just took noobs (including casters and so called pros) that long to realize

Because if there is one thing that Mirana does not lack, it is attack fucking speed. Attack speed past +200 attack speed is pretty fucking useless, and mirana has a fuckton of attack speed from base agi growth, from butterfly, mjollnir, diffusal, manta, whatever you build you're gonna build attack speed if you're right clicking. Also the attack speed talent.

Sure, giving attack speed to other core(s) sounds dope, but it does not last that long and your cores should already have a bunch of attack speed (making any attack speed on top of that less effective).

Lycan's howl is way more useful at lvl 25 (even if it doesn't get any sort of an upgrade, but gives 25/50) because it gives everyone DAMAGE (and everyone already has a ton of attack speed). Mirana's attack speed buff is LESS RELEVANT LATEGAME than DRUMS ARE IN THE EARLY GAME when everyone has sub 100 bonus attack speed. You don't go drums every game in the early game (or maybe ever depending on what heroes you pick) and you don't see them as really being that instrumental (get it? because they are drums? and drums are instruments? no? well fuck you), so why would you see leap attack speed as such?

Also, 3 arrows can be a nightmare to dodge in a dense teamfight, if two of them hit, it can be a disaster for the enemy team a lot of the time, it is unreliable for sure, but usually what happens lategame is that you arrow a guy and then a support immediately forces him back/swaps/glimmers/uses some other save, now imagine if you happen to hit both the carry and the support that was about to save him, it paints a completely different picture.

I think its depend on the situation. if your team win tower or gold and exp maybe will better to get leap because rat doto is effective to end gaming. Dota it is all about tower right my friend

Mirana doesn't do shit against towers if the whole enemy team is alive and in position to rotate to defend. She isn't a clinkz who will take buildings so fast you might not even get to press fortify, she is not bristleback or viper who will keep pounding at the structures whether everyone is dead or alive, she is not a veno who will just keep putting down wards and zoning you from defending by disabling your blink daggers.

Mirana is a hero that wants to kill the whole team first, then push, and she has a skillset to do just that. Ult, find the enemy team, murder them with a bunch of magical + physical damage, then take structures.

This guy gets it^

More importantly, you can hit someone else (instead or also), your hit area increases and everyone knows that if someone suddenly gets hit by an arrow, the fight is lost right there. Teamwipe -> throne. It also zones out better and from the side and back is quite deadly.

7.06
Increased attack speed bonus from 8/16/24/32 to 16/32/48/64.
Reduced attack speed bonus duration from 10 to 5.

As long as its not a passive it's not worth it

^think about it, if it were a passive, you would still (at level 25) pretty often have this:

+30 attack speed from talent
+80 attack speed from mjollnir
+30 attack speed from diffusal
+65 attack speed from butterfly
+106 attack speed from base agi and agi gain
+8 attack speed from agi talent
= 319 bonus attack speed

And that is just a mirana that has mjollnir, diffusal and butterfly, not accounting for other items that might grant even more attack speed, even if you ditch one of those items (swap butterfly for a linkens or bkb), you still have over 200 bonus attack speed, meaning additional attack speed is already kind of not that amazing.

Any attack speed bonuses above that give you very marginal increases in +% dps. At this point, a casual claymore will increase your DPS output more than +64 attack speed. Not selling phase boots for travels, as well. A moonshard is a questionable investment for a Mirana, but not for a Sven, for a good reason.

Of course, you can always make an argument that having a passive bonus would mean you just build damage and less attack speed, but the thing is, you build mjollnir because it lets you have more AoE presence, you build diffusal for its amazing utility, you build butterfly/linkens/manta to be untouchable. You some build attack speed because it suits your role well. Because those are good items. Of course, you can build a mkb or daedalus (or even bthorn if necessary) but even if you do, you still build a ton of attack speed.

The problem with this attack speed buff is that it comes into play at level 25 (and only for a few seconds), at which point all of your cores should hit decently fast, and if they don't, something went badly at any rate.

The bonus would have to be really insane to be able to outdo general damage bonuses in the lategame. Invoker's alacrity is 1000000x more amazing than leap, even if it is for one hero, because it provides DAMAGE along with attack speed and has a better uptime. And he doesn't need any talents to improve it.

Leap bonus attack speed sounds amazing on paper, but it really isn't. And of course, you do not get to choose between alacrity and leap attack speed, you get to choose between a marginal bonus in attack speed (at the stage of the game when you get it) and a very disruptive utility spell (which, if it hits, can mean GG due to long death timers at lvl 25, can force buybacks, can defend high ground or attack it, provide vision, etc).

>At this point, a casual claymore will increase your DPS output more than +64 attack speed.
Not buying that.

Lol why does she have 3 attack speed talent thho

*I wanted to say 100 attack speed, not 64, anyways:
We are assuming Mirana has a mjollnir, butterfly and a diffusal II:

Without the bonus:
206 + 104 = 310 damage
2.84 attacks per second
310 * 2.84 = 880 DPS

With the bonus:
310 * 3.53 = 1063 DPS

With a claymore in your inventory:
200 – 211 + 125 = 331
331 * 2.84 = 940 DPS

So you're right, claymore was a clowny example anyways. However, look at the percentage.

A claymore gives you 60 DPS (880 -> 940) where a 100 attack speed bonus (with bad uptime and that you only get at level 25, by sacrificing the 3 arrows bonus) gives you 183.

You'd expect a lvl 25 talent to improve your DPS way more than 3x what a 21 damage item does. But let's change this to something realistic.

Say you get a crystalis instead of a claymore. now your mirana deals 350 damage, and has a chance to crit.

350 * 2.84 * 115% (since crystalis gives you 15% more dps through crit) = 1143

So a 2k gold item in your inventory will give you 263 DPS (with a random factor due to crit).

My point is that you'd expect this 100 attack speed bonus to do way more than it does, since it is pretty close to a moonshard. It should improve your damage more than a fucking crystalis. Yet it doesn't, even remotely (maybe against buildings it gives about the same bonus, but you should wonder if it is really that amazing).

I guess leap attack speed is pretty good if you have lots of cores, or you have built some actual damage items. If for some reason you have a daedalus and mkb (or even a rapier that the enemy medusa built against a team with 3 diffusal carriers for some reason), that leap attack speed is going to be huge because you do not exactly have a metric fuckton of attack speed considering you also need defensive items and boots, and you deal a lot of damage but slowly, at that point +164 attack speed is going to be insane.

More to the point, if you are building MKB instead of mjollnir (say, you're playing against PA/AW), attack speed bonus at 25 is going to scale pretty well. But if you have a mkb AND mjollnir, at that point attack speed is just worth less as far as the main target percentage DPS goes.

But with most typical mirana builds, which means you might get a mjollnir, or just build a ton of stats which means a lot of agility, it makes her attack speed bonuses a bit redundant.