i think the key to dota if you're playing safelane/mid is to just have a minimum of 650+gpm, even in losing games and avoiding deaths as much as possible. you don't really need to be good at the game if you're always 1 big item ahead of the enemies and win fights due to that
More questions:
How much dying once to pudge as SF/Slark/TA affects your future gameplay if you're supposed to play from behind?
Saying you died and you failed to get SB/PT on SF at 11 mins, but you got it at 13 mins.
Does it matter?
What would you do if enemy and your team starts a teamfight at enemy side of the map, and you are not there?
Would you run and try to help them, or just splitpush and farm?
Obviously, if my team is winning the fight and enemy is retreating, I'll try to catch at least one enemy hero.
Also, in lategame teamfights...
Is it better to go for support kill or carry kill, if you can't kill enemy's carry fast?
Does it matter how you initate as Slark with your ultimate(given the fact you have to use it in order to get a kill)
Do I wait as core player for other people to initiate or I do it if I have SB, but I know they might be sentries?
@ kr
Okay, I understand that and it makes sense.
How do I smoke gank with pos 4 or 5 that's salty and refuses to do so?
Can you tell me what's better in case of going for a play in a sidelane as SF:
8 min SB/Bottle/Naked boots or:
11 min pt/bottle/SB
How much timings above affects the general outcome of the game?
Am I supposed to help sidelanes as fast as I can as a mid lane with SF? Saying I got the tower and SB at min 8, or getting PT before SB might help?
@Severe
I've tried maximizing my farm as Sven/SF/Slark and I'm quite decent at it, I think I'm capable of hitting at least sub 600 on a daily base if I actually try to do so.
However, having items as a core player doesn't win me tough and close games, because I'm not sure what should I do with them sometimes.
1. you shouldn't die to a pudge or any roamer, buy your own wards if needed, once they kill you 3+ times and take your tower your game is pretty much over, so prevent that from happening.
2. that's not an issue, 13 min is fine
3. yes it does matter, don't feed
4. ignore it unless you can get free kills
5. just splitpush and farm, no need to put yourself into deeper shit
6. the target you chose depends on the game and the state of the game, mostly you go for supports in the early game as they have the teamfight CC, later on you focus the cores. but like i said it's game dependant
7. game dependant again
8. game dependant
1. it doesn't matter too much since all 3 of those heroes farm quite fast
2. yes, it does matter, you shouldn't die at all, but it's not the end of the world
3. you should assess the situation and see if you being there would make a significant difference, ie. instead of 2 enemies surviving with a glimmer of health you could have TPed, killed them and saved your rubick & dazzle. this really varies but USUALLY i'd tp just to avoid tilting my teammates
4. killing supports first is usually much better if there's a fight going on, especially ones with gamechanging abilities dazzle/oracle/disruptor
5. matters a lot, you should always rather use it early than not at all and die due to that
6. you can a-click enemies while invis and next to creeps if you think there's a sentry in that area
As pos 1 I think the most important thing is to not die, pretty much anything is better than you dying. There's too much situational stuff that varies from game to game to answer your questions tbh. Main thing is to have an idea of your 'win condition' whether that be something you do in fights or in split-pushing/getting some combination of items that makes you unstoppable, and try to play towards it. This will vary from game to game and is probably a key skill in being a decent dota player.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3115757428
From 10k down as AM, not looking good midgame but I knew as long as we avoided getting multiple man chronoes and made sure that I was the only one who got chronoed with centaur ulti to save me we could win fights this way. Until we got to that point just had to split game out and farm up.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3111282485
20k down as Mag+jugg, again not looking good but with Mag+jugg there's always a chance if you can sit high ground and get a nice RP. Although we were all quite poor our Mag was actually quite wealthy, told him to rush a refresher so we could bank it all on a sick high ground teamfight as this is our best way of getting back into the game, a fight went our way eventually and it was all uphill from there.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3100855945
15k and 1 rax as Lifestealer, our win condition was to burst someone with naix+mag and take fight from there, ofc with OD this is an issue so we just 1 man rped OD every fight and after that we could clean up.
@ Cookie
"1. you shouldn't die to a pudge or any roamer, buy your own wards if needed, once they kill you 3+ times and take your tower your game is pretty much over, so prevent that from happening. "
Can you explain me why dying 3+ times and losing the mid tower as a core player results in having such a hard game and is a gamelosing mistake?
Coinsidering the fact some mids are capable of recovering even if losing tower/dying, seems like I fail to understand the importance of not dying.
Also:
"2. that's not an issue, 13 min is fine "
This is kinda confusing. You're saying to me that 13 SB is fine, but dying to the enemy mid/roamer is game losing. What if I just got 2 min lane because i lost tower and died to them?
losing mid tower quite early fucks up your mapcontrol, they'll ward your jungle and that roamer's going to make your farming very difficult if you're trying to comeback
@ all
This "depends on a game" style of answers doesn't really help anyone.
I know you're right and that it's true, but it's literally just more confusing.
I'm not gonna lie, it's not like I';ve tried my best getting good at this game, but for the time I've played it I never could just had that deep understading of winning condition in some cases.
being off your items by 2 minutes isnt game losing but what is game losing is feeding their midlaner and roamer
enemy midlaner will get all their items sooner and the roamer will go roam other lanes
you'll lose because you'll lose the other 2 lanes as well in the next 5 minutes
what i mean with ''depends on game'' is YOU CAN'T GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER WITHOUT GIVING ME AN EXAMPLE
One more question:
I'm afraid I'll get hooked/stuned/ganked by enemy rotations or roaming mirana/pudge/mk/whatever as SF or TA mid.
I have 2 options in my brain:
Play agressive despite the danger and try to harass mid/get farm/tower, maybe kill him... and risk it dying.
Play passive until you see gankers/roamers again on the side of the map that's not dangerous for you, and go jungle if it's not ocupated by your team.
Is there any other way of playing around this issue?
Also, warding is an option, it;s just that I'm not sure if wasting 200-300 gold for wards will affect my gameplay overall?
Sorry if the answeers to my questions are already there, it's ton of info and it's hard to get it all fast.
@ Cookie, an example would be this game:
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/172744662
Can you tell me why I lost it?
If it's items - how would you itemize agains them?
If it's poor farm, how much farm I'm supposed to obtain instead?
If it's decision making, can you specify me things that lost me that game?
I mean that's the skill of the game and is most of the reason why good players exist. If you've played a decent amount of Dota you should have a good idea of relative strengths/weaknesses of both teams and you should have an idea of how both teams should approach teamfights mid/lategame. With this in mind you can formulate a win condition for your team and then work towards it. You probably already do this but subconsciously/badly.
One of the things I see players do a lot in my games is play mindlessly. By this I mean if the game is even/bad they will just farm lanes and run around map like headless chickens. These players are usually mechanically fine but they aren't thinking about what the intention behind their movements is. If you don't have a plan to win you can't expect to just farm and walk around and the game to just randomly fall into your lap. Lategame I am constantly asking my team 'what's the plan lads' and trying to plan out our win condition because that get's everyone in a positive mindset where they are thinking about how they can win the game not how they can prolong it until something just happens.
@ Cutnpaste 6k guy
Yeah, I get that and it clearly makes a difference between bad and good players, which ends up in having good or bad mmr.
However, the game I showed to the Cookie above just gave me nightmare in terms of WHAT to do.
I wasn't sure if getting Dragon Lance instead of Silver Edge is okay, and I wasn't sure if getting BKB asap would be benefical.
So I kinda gambled and went for around 14 min SB, 20 min Silver Edge, 25 min BKB.
I had no idea that those items were right, but I was just afraid of their magial dmg, so I thought BKB is must-have, Silver Edge can't hurt, and SB is just decent item on him overall.
Skadi was bought because of HP/ Slow/everything it offers, and I had no idea why I bought hurrican pike, but I think it was over at that point anyways.
I mean you have to recognise some games aren't always winnable, just looking at your draft it's total dogshit compared to theirs. You got 4 heroes that are all going to be able to do nothing but hit creeps come midgame and only x-marks/duel to kill slippery heroes like morphling and invoker. Your win condition is to snowball from lanes and end before morph/voker get out of control so your itemization makes sense, you just probably played a bit loose before you went high ground and then after 30 minutes the game isn't really winnable against a decent morphling.
If you want to improve and gain mmr you can't look at games where you owned but team still lost, those are an inevitable part of the Dota 2 experience. Instead look at the games where you shat the bed and work from there.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3130126743
How did you go 1-14 as midlane? That's a pretty unacceptable level of feed, the fact your team held on for 40 minutes means if you just broke even and didn't die as much you would probably get carried to victory.
@ She just loves the attention
Some games aren't always winnable, but for fucks sake, it was 3.4k avg game. And despite my efforts I lost it.
Idk what could I do in that game, honestly. I itemized just based on what it feels like is the best. not what is optimal for sure..
@ kr
I don't know what to do after I take their first set of towers, or even sec. For some reason, I can't convince my team to go and push HG, and I can't do it alone.
They just like to AFK farm for some reason most of the time.
I'm not a jugg expert, but what do I do with him against team with huge disable potantial? Yes I can spin, and I can omnislash, yes, I can splitpush, I can escape...
But I don't know how to kill people with him. He seems to me like one trick pony at some point, and it's probably because I suck with him..
"what do I do with him against team with huge disable potantial?"
make ur teammates tank disables. focus on dropping h ward and making it NOT DIE. if yo uare disabled and ward is alive it basically doesnt fuckign matter. and u can focus on the ward 100% while stunned
smoke wiht +1 useful teammate and rosh at some pointw hile ur team mindlessly farms lanes. 3ks have a 0% chance of checking rosh at 20-30 minutes with 2 heroes missing. qb helps a bit again
to kill people u just wait for them to waste spells and blink on people or siege and wait for them to come to u or u get really far ahead adn just walking at people nets kills because you have manta diffusal/mj blink or some shit
tjeres a reason people give joke answers. as nice as getting outside opinions is a lot of dota is being able to synthesize your own idea of how to best win the game. critical thinking is an important skill
Most low mmr cores dont push and thats the main weakness. I rly hate fucktards prolonging the game
hey werent u like 4k. how on earth is it possible that u cant win in 3.3k lol
Imo low 3ks are very good at mindlessly farm. Just gank them asap and be have impact for core player. Getting good item isnt guarantee for win. But having big impact is vice versa
3K's are very "good" at mindlessly farming? 3K's aren't good at anything, especially not farming. (not trying to be arrogant either, they're just really bad at farming, and that's saying something, cause i'm terrible at farming and high 4K now)
Y i have been mistaken. I mean they care about farming lot but tbh they cant farm even they did tons of effort.
I don't need tips to escape 3.3k, i've done it several times in the past.
It's just a matter of time, I'll do it eventually. I'm not the best player for sure, but I'm sure my exp and skill can prevail when it comes to 3.3k.
I've been getting hard/bad/trool games, that's all.
first thing first, if you think you are gonna 4 or 3v5 in mid game, get a fucking midas and aim for late game.
if you play pos 4 and you think ur mid game is very hard due to drafting, get a midas.
if you play offlane and think you are fucked early and mid, get a midas.
7.05 has been very punishing for team with no good high ground defense and team fight strat.
^ only good if ur gonna 1v9 or you die 2-3 times in mid.
if you have many pick off potentials in mid game, rush sb, else, go midas.
apparently spamming riki on SEA gives you 6k mmr despite having no clue about the game.
hello, this thread is targeted at those with blue stars. those without blue stars shouldn't reply at all.
pity you guys never play 5k or 6k games. any mistakes or late in farms are very punishing, and one of the tool to redeem is midas.
Question to the 5ks here; have you ever been matched against a known pro player; meaning high Tier2/ Tier1 team guy? If so, was there a huge disparity in skill, much like the gap between 3k and 4k, or 4k and 5k?(There's no gap in skill here in the 1.7-3.5 trench, trust me, we're all equally "good"/bad). Or was it a decently balanced game?
Ana was next level good, playing magic ember and winning games two years ago, second player in Aus to hit 7k and first to hit it without spamming a broken hero. Played vs meracle naga in unranked 5-man stack and we got reamed although we lost all our lanes hard so it's hard to tell.
5ks are trash, maybe if you are 7k you have a chance and more realistically 8k is the new benchmark for core players.
1-3K irrelevant
4K bad
5K decent
6K good
7K very good
8K too good
9K That good good.
(joking)
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
What's the most important thing when it comes to playing from behind?
Is it not dying, split pushing/cutting waves and farming as fast as you can?
What do I do when I get a decent timings on my core items for Slark or SF, but I can't gank due to enemy team establising agressive vision(sentries for SB, Obs..)
Do I farm more? How do I make sure I turn things into my favor? Is communication important in this case?
Let's say I'm on even terms with their mid, we're trading farm. And I manage to kill him once, take his mid tower, get my core items..
However, my safelane is destroyed, tower taken, jungle warded, my carry keeps dying repeatedly despite my efforts of trying to tell him to play safe.
Suppots refuses to gank.
What is basically the key of making sure you can fight against enemy team who's ahead as mid or carry such as JUGG, Sven, Slark.. Mid: SF, TA..