7.00 is good. embrace the change and see the positive things of the patch. don't whine about its demerits
wow I really reading all your word one by one, I was winning non stop when this patch has been informed and at Beta I winning non stop but after actually seriously play 7.00 I find out the Machanic required is the same and the new map was good (now we haven't fully discover it yet but as far as I can see it contains much more potential Fog or Hill can be played with) map is good, UI need to be changed tho and alot of bug/ imba things need to work with but let's trust the frog will do it's job
everyone complains about everything. if ppl leave. good. those people were shit at dota anyway cause the patch isnt hard to learn
Every Normal Skill scrub will like the changes, cos they are interesting. Its a good change for people that didint spend last 12 years on this game like i did, and op also. Now, this patch is a nightmare not only for high mmr carry players that were learning farming patterns and decision making for years, but also for any players that just started to make more skill progress me incl.
I feel sorry for GameLeap.com and all the effort they put into making all of those guides. I feel sorry for pros and high mmr players that now have to learn shittons of new things or die. For me it was much simplier. I just uninstalled and currently selling my last items from armory.
Typical statements from kids that didint play long enough is "U have to adapt" "Go quit, no one cares - we like this LOL 2" "7.00 is good, its u that does not keep up to the market expectations".
TBH we will see about market expectations. Im pretty sure Dota will lose a lot of good customers. Does a 12 year old kid have more money to spend than me ? Just an example.
Why would they do this to dota after 13 or more years ? To gain new player base from LoL ? I cant find any logic in that. It a huge middlefinger towards old doto players, and people that loved dota just how it was. I think I could digest a new hero, but changes made this game clearly a Dota 3. Or LoL 2.
WHY BLIZZARD DIDINT CHANGE STARCRAFT ? BUT THEY CHANGED DIABLO CONCEPT AND THAT GAME IS BORING AF.
If I'm not mistaken you can see your KDA and LH/D on the top left on your screen, yesterday I played and I always checked my KDA there...
The only bad thing about the update is the UI, other than that, you can simply get used to it. The first time I played on 7.00 , I was like, "WTF, where is the secret shop", "How TF do you open the shop", "There are 4 runes?", "Roshpit got moved again", and many more complains.
The hero reworks also got many people ragequitting, saying this isn't Dota anymore..
I agree there are many things wrong with this patch, but the Dota we know and love, is still the same old same old thing
P.S.: 7.00 isn't Dota 3 or LoL 2. If people say Dota is becoming LoL, they're dead wrong. LoL is far more cashgrab than Dota, and their competitive scene is just Faker... If you have Faker as a midlaner you'll win Worlds.
Dota is much more dynamic than LoL, whereas LoL stagnated, Dota keeps on adding new things to the game.
At the end of the day the patch was getting boring and they need to switch things up. You cant grow a game by only pandering to an old audience, you need to as a company adapt to your competitors and generate a product that can appeal to new people because otherwise your game will stagnate. If it stayed on 6.88 it would be balanced, but it was already getting boring to see only your od's and juggernauts see the light of day and other heroes largely ignored (though of course most were tried). It was getting boring to see the same strats and the same game, at least with a new patch imo there is more to learn which i rlly like. The idea that i have to change is bad in general and i understand your pov cuz i have the same one for a lot of different topics. But u have to understand that something even similar to 7.00 in nature, a big change, is almost inevitable and they dont have a choice rlly in order to stay fresh.
At the end of the day the changes are big, but the core remains the same and it is learnable. Imo if u dont wanna play idc thats up to u and if u dont have fun then dont waste ur time. But just understand that starcraft gets no new attention anymore because they dont change it. Do the old timers still love it? Yes. But now it has stopped growing and started a decline. Same with diablo only it was already in decline and the changes are too late.
And what about CounterStrike ? Its still the same game as it was 16 years ago when I played it for the first time. They changed Graphics and Mechanics a bit, added some fancy granades and thats it. Its still feels like good old Cs 1.6. Why would they change such a good concept ?
Thats why e-sport will never be a sport. Cos its a product, that needs to be constantly changed. If someone would try to change rules of football game, there would be mass demonstrations on the streets.
I can agree that esports wont just become a sport, but it can still be a pseudo sport, a game. Its not a traditional sport, but it can still act like one, and for all intents or purposes mirror one. In regards to cs, it has a community imo so large that it wont stagnate for a while. I dont think cs, at least in the base that plays the fucking game instead of opening cases, watching FaZe and saying they PLAY cs, is growing too much. I cud be wrong im not a big insider on the cs community, but it seems to just be leveling off. I think dota is in that place as well, and valve is trying to keep it growing as long as possible.
I will not quit dota but for sure dota have been shit since patch7.00. Just like you said they will lose a lot of good customer and of course money. Tbh i would spend a lot of money to bring back 6.88 or getting 6.89. The reason why i hate this game now because i feel like this game is a older and more mature game than lol. Lol is like for kids and dota is for adult because
1. See the graphics
2. Players
3. Game difficulty
I hope they bring back the old good and great graphics and ui.
And @daddy the core of dota is changed because
1. Easier dota nowadays( stun bars etc)
2. Shines, runes, new monkey king.
And hey i just played dota for roughly 10 months. So dont take this really seriously.
Dota is still way harder than league dude. Imo its a bit of an overreaction. Not on what was said, but the real magnitude. And the game is for anyone who wants to play it, i hate these dumb ass stereotypes, u play a game if its fun, the company may market it to a different crowd, but at the end of the day it doesnt matter. Unless ur like 40 years old playing minecraft or club penguin or some extreme shit. Like the standard deviation is fine. If anything dota is trying to market itself with the vid in the site showing off 7.00 as a old game trying to freshen up, as if trying to excite the older generations of players for change.
7.00 is a really good patch imo. And the relation your talking about happens to be HotS. It took all the good stuff from it and made it all better.
Thread is long so sorry if this was mentioned but legacy 6.88 is on the arcade now so don't fret!
Also I am enjoying the new patch but one of my friends quit "for life" :(
Can't please them all...
Wow... Lots of losses^^ @hook&roll
Even the ti6 season didn't fish too much players.
Maybe all the Na'Vi fangays were not expecting it anymore?
I guess it forced the team to do the last resort. REwork.
why people complain so much?? when 7.00 first came out, i do agree that some aspects were shitty and kinda ridiculous. but the developer keep updating and updating (so many updates coming in in the last few days) and its getting better and better. yeah maybe some people hate the new gameplay, saying its a direct copy from LoL or some other games; and the bullshit talent tree, how imbalanced it is; and people quitting dota because of it. that is probably true but there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. you want to quit? nobody fucking care. there are millions of other people who love the new patch.
dont be so entitled that the developer needs to satisfy your vision and needs. its their game, so you better either play it, or just go somewhere else. you want to make your own dota? go on then, and see for yourself that making a balanced, acceptable, and lovable game is simply hard to be done. the developer has done a good job, and talking shit about them its simply rude. if you wanna make suggestions, just contact them. you dont actually need followers or some people who think the same as you. you can always do it yourself.
edit: let them developer do what they want. we are simply players, maybe not that important to them. if this game gonna lose its customers then it will be. if it isnt, then it wouldnt. either way, its gonna affect the developer, not you, not anyone. if you want to keep playing, go on and if you dont, then i say goodbye. like i said earlier, its their game, their product, not ours. we are simply players.
first of all: "Thread is long so sorry if this was mentioned but legacy 6.88 is on the arcade now so don't fret!" - Does that mean, I get to play the old dota? That would actually solve my problem. Maybe 5000 other guys wordwide will play with me - would be fine for me, haha.
Also. I contacted the developers obviously. Even before i put in my first post here. I don't expect a reaction though, because they must have hundrets of thousands of shitmails after this and won't be able to identify constructive critics amongst the usual trash.
Also i wanna say to saqil. Sure, I'm just a player and this is just business. The developer don't care about me, or the 0.1% that feels like me. Obviously it's about money and their legacy instead of my little needs.
Why do you think, I'm trying to get information from the community. Because they have money. And I thought "man, let's see, how many that are - maybe there IS money in allowing the old dota and then it would even be interesting for the developers" You know, make some sort of deal with them. And yes, it is kind of childish to think, this would work over this platform. But I'm just trying to get input first. Maybe I won't start, maybe I will start. Why do you even care, saqil? I mean, you made such a big effort to give me an answer that doesn't help me or really affect my feelings about this new game. Like, just think what you wrote down here, and it would be the same. I can't change, that I hate the new game. I just can't - it is obviously shitty and if you don't see it, then I can't help you and don't want to help you.
Also @daddy and @lex. You guys made some great points. Thanks for the answers, very helpful!
Sigh... I still don't know what I am gonna do about this. It just still sucks so hard and doesn't get better. I have watched a few videos of the pros now, the hud is nicer yes. It still totally sucks tbh. But better, yes...
But the hud just wasn't the problem. It's like they brought out so many different things, made one really shitty, so people would focus on this one particular aspect, while forgetting that all the other changes (or at least a very effing lot of them) are also shitty.
This game will never be traditional, because traditions come over generations, meaning 30 years and more. In order to achieve that you need on the other hand a fanbase sticking that long with one game. That is tough to achieve. Also, that might not make as much money on shortterms. And economic- students learn nowadays nothing about longterm decisions anymore, because marketing is just such a fucking big thing now. 20 years ago, this could have actually been a vision.
Man... I don't know. I'm clearly whining about right now, but what can I do? Accepting shit? Like, I don't even listen to all you haters. You have no idea, what I'm talking about - clearly. You just don't get it. It was a fucking beautiful game that just couln't fucking get boring, and if it did get boring to you guess what - you're not a dotaplayer, you're a casual player, who probably also plays I don't know shooters and stuff, roleplaygames and what not.
I don't even wanna send this text now.
Maybe I'll just play the new dota now. I don't know. Might aswell...
On this note. Have a nice day guys.
Warning: I had a lot to say apparently.
There are a lot of different aspects about the new patch people have a problem with so I'll break it down one by one and give my opinion:
1) Talent Tree. I don't think it necessarily breaks Dota or changes the core concepts. Its a better system than the Attribute bonuses was, since it has the potential to benefit every hero equally. A support doesn't benefit much from plus 2 to all stats but will benefit from something like cast range or bonus gold. It gives new ways of balancing heroes and lets you adapt to the game, giving skilled players who know what they really need more options to adapt. I'm sure in future patches they will buff weaker talents (+6 Treants) or nerf the ones that are too good. Sure some things might be broken now but this is Dota. Something is always broken and the nice thing is that Valve/Icefrog actually tries to fix it.
2) Map Changes. This is quite a big deal but ultimately it needed to happen. Radiant and Dire were not balanced. Getting rid of the Rosh advantage was necessary, it was too much of a factor in pro games. Also its not the first time this has happened. A few patches ago the entire Radiant Jungle was reworked and it took time for people to adapt and find the new optimum farming patterns and ward spots and stuff. This is basically the same thing, just on a larger scale. Sure I still feel a bit lost on the map, but I'm learning how to get around it better. This is probably the change that requires the most adaption but at the same time its not something we haven't had to deal with before.
3) Shrines. The way I see it, Shrines are a way to counteract the fact that the map is larger now by providing more TP spots, while at the same time making highground defence easier and helping deal with a poor laning stage. Its also important to see that the two top shrines allow both teams to always have fast Rosh access. It wasn't fair that one team could kill off two T1 towers and then have a rosh advantage for the rest of the game. Shrines mean that no team will have superior Rosh access until they have taken all the outer towers and the top Shrine so it enables better comeback potential for good teams. Ultimately I see shrines as a way to slow down or prevent the 10 minute Deathball strats that are no fun to play against.
4) The UI. This is Terrible. I agree. Things like last hits, detailed information about your stats and your KDA aren't easily accessable and its even worse from a spectator point of view. Baumi actually made a video detailing the problems with the new UI which I hope someone at Valve watches. But at the same time this is something they can fix and it wont even be that difficult. And since Dota has such a large Pro-scene I'm fairly sure they will fix up the UI before the next major.
5) Game is Easy. This isn't necessarily true. Yes its easier for new players to get into the game and understand things but this isn't a bad thing. Additionally the game still has a huge skillcap. Things like the talent tree and shrines just increase the skiilcap making the game easier to play but harder to master. And this is also a good thing.
6) Dota is now LOL/HOTS/HON/Whatever. Dota is still its own game. Is it so wrong to be inspired by good ideas in other games? I'm sure everyone has played or watched another game and looked at a certain concept or idea and thought "Wow I Wish this was in Dota." Ultimatly most of those other games were inspired by Dota so is it really so wrong for Dota to take some good ideas back from them if they can truly improve the game?
7) Hero Reworks. This complaint I honestly don't understand. Heroes are getting reworked all the time. Some abilities just don't work out or are too boring and pointless to keep. Seriously people complaining that Necro, Tree, Lycan and Techies got changed are just Nitpicking.
8) Backpack. Gets rid of some annoying aspects of the game and makes supporting more enjoyable. Nothing bad about it.
I think the biggest problem everyone has is that all these major changes happened at once. If they had been spread out over several patches there would be much less complaining. So maybe that's something Valve should consider in future. But to me the game still feels like Dota. It takes some adapting but its still feels the same in many ways.
@Lex
CSGO got their skillcap lowered and got impactful changes tbh, ofc, not as much as 7.00, but still
I agree with the previous statement of one of the people who said this patch punishes High skilled players and veterans of the game because it does. Honeslty i feel like Players such as PPD and Fear knew this was coming and decided to retire. And I have quit Dota now aswell Having played the game for 9 years. Hear me out aswell. Im not some conservative narrow minded scrub who as soon as he sees change complains. I consider myself realistic and willing to adapt to new things. However this patch is an absolute mess. There's no way about it. From the introduction of a stun length and silence length bar to provide for noobs and other user friendly characterization. The game has become literally >2k MMR = 90% of people playing the game. What happened to the old skill of timing a stun and having to educate yourself on skills of heroes which i spent countless of hours on. Now its useless because Valve decided HEY we can Just throw it in there to help players perform combos effectively. This game has taken out such a large portion of what made me a good player, calculation, and skill of timing. They have literally ruined everything and an alternative opinion is useless. Im sorry but i know that Im saying the truth. And it makes me extremely angry that I have to give up something that was a part of my life and daily habit. Something I've prided myself on and have been able to compete with others to become as best as I can be. Now it's not DotA 2 anymore. It's a different game, this shouldn't be considered as 7.00 but as DotA 3 because they have changed EVERYTHING. Every hero is now different because of talent tree, Map is completely disorientating and divided in sections that makes the game opposite of their aim to shorten the length with the amount of new additions and spots to contest and things to destroy and more things to farm promoting your typical pub line ups with greedy carries since more camps = more gold = more space for greed. I've played 8 games since 7.00 and won only 1!! And in each game my gpm and xpm hasnt dropped under 450 ea Playing from pos 1-4. This game is absolute trash flooded with children who will spend money, get bored after half a year and jump on the new Cod that comes out leaving us loyal players to suffer. what did we do to deserve this? I've supported every change for Dota until now because it renders a copy of its rival LoL and it is such a drastic change in an instant instead of being spread out across a couple of different updates. But again I know for a fact this opinion will be disregarded because like i said >2K MMR = 90% Dota Players. So I dont care about the opinions of scrubs who will leave the game after 6months. When i play the game, The minute my hero is given ability for me to control him/her I make sure every step and click is calculated to attempt to win the game for my team. That means scouting early, stacking, denying camps, creep blocking you name it. And it has taken an extremely long time to get good at this and carry out consistently and now the game wants me to re-learn all possible new pathways, times, combinations and other possibilties within the game itself? No thank you. I feel cheated. It is the same feeling as that when i learnt that my ex cheated on me. This is a kick in the gut to all committed and dedicated DotA players in the last decade from gabe Newell and Valve. I applaud you for trying to change for the better, but I condemn you for the end product. Someone please make a 6.88 map on custom games because
1) Only good team players will play it
2) Its the DotA we all love
3) It will force Valve to respond
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
First of all, its gonna be a long threat here, so you wanna buckle up.
I want to know how many people might actually quit because of 7.00? Are the numbers real, or just emtpy threats? So, if you dont mind, commend about that (and ofc any other thing, if you wish) by saying "quit", "no quit", "might quit". You know, just to see, if I am the only one out there, that feels robbed, so to speak, of my good old dota.
I have been playing Dota now for like 13 years or so. This account is young, yes... But I really dont care about that, I just wanted a new one. Anyways, playing for very long now, and always enjoying the game. I am not good by the way, haha, its to me like football is to my friends. They watch pro matches, just like i do, but playing themselves they dont, like i dont play very well.
I kinda never cared so much about skins and stuff, so the only things I started buying lateley were these battle passes that they made now and they are exquisit! Paying a couple of bucks on a free game every now and then helps valve and icefrog and doesn't really hurt me. So I did that, and now thinking back, I would probably pay a yearly fee up to 100 bucks, because I appreciate the work these guys make. I was after LoL came out and Dota 1 therefore kinda was graphicaly defeated very happy to see that the new Dota 2 was really close to the old version. I didn't need another game, I needed the same game, just better graphics. My friend was very torn about wheather to start or not on the new Dota 2 then, but I just said that the game is the same - litteraly the same. One week later, he was back in. We played, now because he works he reduced playing. Anyways - Dota 2 had overcome LoL again, it kept its purety - so to speak- and its originality.
Then, for the last few years since Dota 2 came out, pretty much nothing happened. The patches were minor and quit basic. I remember the very last "big" thing was the transition of the roshpit and everybody freaked out. But even that was just a tactical thing, to balance the map a litte. By the end, it was not important to me.
Yeah, Dota is a game for people like me. That know this "mod" is the term i think. Its a very specific game with very specific laws and rules. The longer you play it the better it gets. I never in my life thought, that one day i would enjoy watching other people play this game and now i nearly daily watch one or two pro matches, or even the egoperspective of a pro player (like miracle latley). This to me is asounding, what this game became and I loved it.
So, why am I writing my obvious frustration about this new patch out, instead of just get over it and dig into this new game? Well, not because I am one of these whiney bitches - as we talk in dota, haha, but for another reason. I want my dota back, and the only way is, obviously by asking the community for help. I alone wont change shit, the pros and everybody being involved moneywhise, clearly will root for this change, because they have to. If they are not having a positive attitute about this change (7.00) then their carrer might be down the river. So I dont expect someone like purge, sunsfan etc or even the pro teams like og etc etc to bitch about this patch, but I can. I dont have anything to lose other then my favourite game. So, my idea, why i am writing this down is to ask you other players to help me basically. First of all do i really need to know how much this patch actually had an affect on you. Do you like it? Are you excited about it, or are you hoping that by some miracle you will get used to it, like in a bad marriage? I kind of dont want to get used to it, when i was already very happy with the game so far.
By the way. I dont want to go in all the changes by themselves, because it is very clear what has to change "back". I dont care about this talent tree. I need better information throughout the game. Why dont my k-d-a's have to be covered under the alt- tab? My lasthits are interesting information to me, aswell as my stats. They took that out of the game, by hiding it under the alttab. As spectator, yadi yadi, you cant see how well a pro is doing, which is why i cant even watch an admiral bulldog video of this monkey king, without fucking absolutely hating it! I need to see on how well he is doing, otherwise it doesnt interest me. Its just shiny heroes then...
It also is obvious that the made the game easier und more flexible. But those things make a game boring. First of all about flexibility, which seems nice of course. The game dota is already flexible af. You get to pick 10 heroes out of a 100sth sth hero pool. Like, when i just start easy math there, there isnt a way to stop debating on how flexible it alrdy is. And yes, this alchi and am picks in everygame suck, but - I mean - you can nerve them until people dont play them anymore. Thats what happened in the last 10 years and so. And you did well balancing this.
I also have a question to the developers themselves: Do you really think to change the gameplay so hard is what you wanted? You know, that you copied LoL right there, right? "But LoL generates more money!" Yes and no. LoL from my latest knowledge has like 70 million people playing worldwide, meanwhile the older and better original, Dota, only has like 20 million.
So yes, I get you want the younger people to have an easier game. Then more will play it therefore more money yadi yadi.
And yes. I would probably do the same.
However I have a petition: Please give me the possibility to play the patch 6.9... what ever it exactly just now was. I would like to see how many player would not play the new patch. Just out of interest. And by the way. Like dota 1, people would ofcourse play the new map, but only after a while. Also, again. This patch is big. Very big.
This change would maybe split the players into two brackets. People like me, who would really stay on the older but better version. We would probably balance the game out ourselves as a mod or something, and there would now be two equal versions of dota. Your new one, and our beloved old but living dota. The other option would be, that dota 2 becomes what you are realising right now. All players adapt and dota 2, as we know it, is over.
This second one is why i am writing. I am free and i can do shit. I therefore can ask people to help me, because i know, this pitch is not subjectivly shitty, but clearly objectivly shitty. And so it is clear to me, that there are probably millions of players out there thinking: "Fuck. This guy speaks my mind. I will answer him and like give a vote...." Whatever.
I actually was on this page today the first time and was looking for dota 2 discussions that agree with me. But they are either quite toxic or idiotic. Most of them were just people letting their frustrations out. But not one debate here (from what i could find) was trying to gain information about this.
This patch needs to sincerely be patched. If i am right, please tell me.
Well. Thats it. For now.