General Discussion

General DiscussionWhat should I pick when Sven has been picked?

What should I pick when Sven has been picked? in General Discussion
Rocket

    Too likely to get Insta-reports if I pick meepo.

    LISAN AL GAIB

      Pick something that can kite him, he gets owned by that, force him to go bkb but well that depends on your team comp. If you want to get a core that can kite him quite well you can go Luna or Drow for example, they can run away from him and kite him well but you will prob need some assistance from your teammates if he initiates on you.

      TheMaverick427

        If you play support then Bane makes his life miserable. SD as well, but I find Bane more effective. Batrider is another effective counter. For carries, and ranged carry that can get a Skadi later is good. Medusa in particular already has a BKB piercing slow with her ult.

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        Riguma Borusu

          There are several options to deal with Sven in ns, and a lot of them do not really easily apply or are easy to pull off in higher MMR. But here goes:

          1) Kiting/slows - There are a ton of shit heroes who can kite or slow Sven like Viper, WR and Sniper, but you can also pick some pretty good ones like Drow to kite him pre bkb. The aghs mjollnir buils with pike is really good vs Sven because sven with warcry becomes impervous to physical damage (basically) and the magic damage will really hurt him once his now 5 sec bkb runs out. With all of those heroes, however, you die if he jumps you first with bkb.

          2) BKB piercing ultimates - If you're any good with Nigma, Bane, LC, BM, SD or Batman Rider you can pick them if they fit the draft. While Enigma, Bane and BM are fairly straightforward, LC and Batrider require a bit more caution - with LC you have to make sure he can die to blademail (aka doesn't have warcry buff, for example, and also you want to duel him on the opposite side from your team so he doesn't just cleave everyone after initiation even through your duel, and with batrider you have to make sure that he doesn't kill your team after lasso ends, because it would basically be a pseudoinitiation for him if everyone clumps around laso'd Sven and then he kills everyone with a few seconds of BKB left

          3) Disable-based manfight - One of things that Sven would rather not build is certainly typical manfight stuff like Abyssal and Skadi with 500 attack speed. So Sven is basically countered by having manfight heroes who can disable him through bkb, BUT ONLY IF he can die through those disables. This is to say, lifestealer does counter sven, but if Sven survives through the abyssal duration and has his team assist him in kiting/slowing/disabling lifestealer, he's just meat. Having a Shiva's, Skadi and Abyssal on the same team can mean hell for Sven if utilized correctly.

          4) Tankiness - Lategame, Sven is going to have trouble killing particularly tanky cores like spectre or medusa, and even Morphling if Sven's behind or did not itemize properly (aka no blood thorn, for example, you ALWAYS get blood thorn against morphling). Once he has a 5 sec BKB it is safe to assume that the enemy team also has things that can silence/hex/force staff/euls him right away, so he won't be able to accomplish much. So he has to kill people in what little time he has, and killing a 8 slotted spectre (with buyback and refresher on top of it) is just not going to happen (not to mention he would never initiate on spectre in first place). The same thing goes with medusa with five million EHP.

          5) While abyssal-based and basher-based heroes fall into the #3 category, equipping Shiva and Skadi is also really good

          6) Escape-based heroes - While Sven is good against heroes like Weaver, Antimage and Slark on paper since he can deal and resist a ton of physical damage, in a lot of cases you can also be kited to death by heroes who weave in and out of fights, depending on whether your team has detection, how behind you are, and so on. While it is sad to see Sven raped by Slarks and AMs or Weaver since he counters them to a degree, it is really hard to kill them if you cannot kill them when you make the initial jump. A lot of those cases can be fixed by getting a Blood Thorn and Silver Edge for seamless initiation, but if somebody plays a cookie cutter Sven build they might get fucked because they expect to blink and blow people up, just to have somebody escape them at lo wHP and later reingage when Sven no longer has ult or BKB.

          7) 100% uptime heroes - Heroes like Storm and Tinker fall into several categories already outlined, but the truth is, Sven's BKB is only usable for a few seconds at a time, and he does not always have his ult. If Sven tries to push after a succesful teamfight where he kills everyone but storm/tinker, he's in for a surprise - they'll utterly shit on him instead. They are not cooldown dependant, they do not care about your BKB or God's Strength in a way that somebody who has to fight him head on has to (like PA), and they can take their time killing him and annoying his team along the way

          8) Blood Seeker - Now, there's a reason why the whole category belongs to this asshole and the reality is that, even though Sven would prefer to blink in and kill everyone, sometimes he has to walk, and that's impossible against a competent BS. Pair that up with Sniper or some other long ranged cancerous hero and Sven will not only be kited, but also punished for trying to escape - while there are several ways for Sven to deal with Physical and Magical damage as it is (even pure damage, by getting Satanic and having a sizable HP pool), the reality is that he isn't really good at dealing with rupture if there's a single ranged hero on the enemy team that can use 12 seconds to kill him (and lategame basically any ranged carry can, if properly itemized).

          9) Pugna/Ethereal - Sven is NEVER going to build diffusal, and chances are, in NS, neither are his teammates going to. So Pugna basically ruins Sven by not allowing him to hit targets because even though he can BKB himself, he can't remove the ethereal state from his target (and if he builds diffusal, he's likely to cripple his item progression in some way).

          10) Omni - Nobody builds diffusal against omni in normal skill and chances are sven in particular won't, so go Omni. With the diffusal rework, though, it'd still be viable even at higher MMR.

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          Rocket

            Hmm I was hoping for more of a cancer hero seeing as I'm spamming meeps at the moment...how'd zett get on? Spam diffusal charges?

            Shou

              Mostly bkb piercing slows and stuns, so bat, SD, bara. SB is actually pretty good cuz bash is magic DMG so it cuts thru warcry. And the bash pierces bkb. And he can gank Sven early before he gets too big. For carries pick heroes with slows, ranged especially. Drow is good, sniper is good, diffusal is good for the slow and cuz it purges warcry. Items like skadi, abyssal dick him too.

              Shou

                Arc warden counters every hero. The build wud be something like travels pike diffusal mjollnir. Not even close to sure tho, ask cookie.

                Shou

                  Tbh in ns almost all of these things can be worked around, the only thing that can't is everyone buying force staff.

                  Riguma Borusu

                    ^force staff can be worked around by going SnY BoTs, with warcry you have almost max movement speed that way.