please keep this discussion civil and within the dotabuff COC. please reply like havoc does thasnks
uh you are winning on him, what's the issue? There's basically two jugger builds that work really well other than just building for your situation. Not going to consider shit mask of madness or aghs builds.
Farm build- build battlefury and farm non stop til you want to fight. Items after bfury are pretty much the same as other builds
Manta diffusal build- Rush manta and diffusal as your core items. This build has a very early spike in power, really good vs anyone who depends on mana. You might be a little squishy doing this but not really any huge downsides, items build easily and do good dps. Just a third option might be better.
Other than that jugger is a very flexible hero so you can build almost anything on him, just evaluate the situation. Are you facing a ton of rightclickers? Vanguard into abyssal is good or butter if they won't carry mkb. Are you facing a lot of magic and cc? Get bkb even with spin. Do you need more hp to tank? skadi. Do you want to be a glass cannon? Deso, mjollnir type stuff. Do you want to gank and/or be ultra mobile? Silver edge or blink.
There isn't a one size fits all, just decide bfury or no and then manta/diffusal combo or something else. Jug can farm if given space or fight if not.
theres no issue, aside from the fact i dont feel like im playing jugg optimally. thats all. i dont understand the hero well like i do with other heroes (even if i do poorly on them)
i think i like skipping bf, because who needs to farm in nskill anyway. aside from manta diffusal, what would be a good 3rd core item on jugg? just so i dont have to think so hard what to get in games. blink abyssal feels really underwhelming on jugg, its like trying to do what am does but with needing so many more items to do it. skadi and butterfly seem good for me because u r just tanky and it gives a little dmg so u rarely go wrong. or is there a more optimum build?
"i think i like skipping bf, because who needs to farm in nskill anyway."
people who want 100% winrate
farming is the only sure way to win games in ns
why? just do that aghs refresher build which you said is so good in 1k mmr
Are you actually serious? Jug is one of the easiest, best carries in the game right now. Go battlefury regardless, either manta or diffusal, and proceed to win the game.
@milnor: what the fuck does battlefury have to do with tinker or zeus
^ That's the issue. It's redundant when dealing with certain lineups and will be best to not pick up BF at all.
NS is always like that no need farm - just kill enemies and I will be fat.
That's what differentiate VHS with NS,VHS know u have to farm up and then will ensure u win war win game while NS carry can't see that and stuck in NS forever until they see this.
and BTW if u want to see more different build,go 'Dotafire' dotabuff won't help u as much as there.
Get mjollnir and bfury for farming with jugg. And get diffusal for fighting. Its awesome.(At least in my trench)
you still need teamwork to win. i saw 700 gpm jugger lose by getting 6sotted full rambo mode not waiting for team 5 man omnislash and get rekd
After diffusal and manta good core items would be abyssal if you need lockdown and right click mitigation, skadi if you just need raw hp/stats, butterfly if you need dmg and dodge.
It depends on the enemy line up and your team. I personally like BF first for farming, but, if your team has a bad line to fight think about manta first (also depends on the enemy team, if you dont really need to dispel anything go diffusal first) but Jugg is super flexible with his items...consider BKB for high magic damge like tinker or Zeus, even a storm but one thing is never forget about farming even if you have a pushing team farm tiny parts of the jungle while u push cause pushing early means sacrificing levels for towers, which sometimes can go left...imo Jugg does not need Abyssal blade. My build are:
1 - poor mans
2- perseverance
3 - BF or manta (as i said, depends on the other team and my team's line up)
4 - Diffusal
5 - Skadi
6 - Butterfly
7 - MKB
When do you even go Bf on jugg ? i only go bf if they have illusion heroes or split pushers
if they dont have that i just go manta/diffu
BF > Manta > Abyssal/Diffusal/Butterfly/MKB > Same + Skadi if you wanna go late game
Yasha > Diffusal > Blink/Agghs/Basher/Manta/SnY if you want to fight early
Jug is very flexible to itemize so it's pretty easy to audible your build if the pace of the game changes
Jugg was really good about 2 nerfs ago. Now he is just a 50/sub50% hero who is picked a lot cuz he fits into a lot of lineups.
Also, safe or mid boys?
"When do you even go Bf on jugg ? i only go bf if they have illusion heroes or split pushers
if they dont have that i just go manta/diffu"
You'd go for it almost every game if you're the safelane carry, actually, but it doesn't matter at 1500 MMR where you play because you're going to farm people, so you can end the game with 90 last hits over 30 minutes and still think you farmed well because you have 22 kills.
if you are going midlane juggernaut though, do not get a bfury. lane is short, you will never find the space to farm. yes you can reach the hard camp ez but the lane creeps will meet earlier, so you lose some last hits which is not, as you would put it, "playing jugg optimally".
even if you get an early bfury, your rightclicks arent gonna hurt that much and only a value point should be put into your crit, so in the time you are spending trying to clear the enemy creep wave the mid could have done that in 2 seconds with their waveclear, 4 tops.
if you decide to spam bladefury in order to clear the wave faster, this should only be done on the rune spawn time to fill your bottle. if you try to spam it you will be mana starved and thus susceptible to ganks.
one more reason bfury is not good on a mid juggernaut is that you are supposed to be the main space creator of the game. the boogeyman where if the see your x mark in the minimap they go hug the tower because they know they are worth only 3 hits to you. this is so that you main hard carry (something like a tb or dusa) is legitimately safely farming the safelane, not bothered by ganks
The amt of items jugg can buy is nuts. Need survivability? Get ac, skadi, butterfly, satanic, abyssal, Bkb, linkens. Need DMG? Get mkb, butterfly(ye it's DPS is pretty good), manta, diffusal, deso, mjollnir. Mid game items? Sny, diffusal, basher, yasha, drums, vanguard. Mobility? Get blink, SB. Even items like Vlad's or bloodthorn I can see possible. He is just so versatile.
diffu manta best build by far if going mid. admittedly you are going to be squishy af but you have your ward. you can just run up to someone, slow them, activate manta, and theyre dead. if they have backup you can turn it into a double with your slash. if the backup comes in the form of two heroes but one of those heroes is a support, it's a triple for you. juggernaut is so easy to use it's disgusting
after those two you can get virtually any item in the game, be it drums vladmirs crest sb dagg. jugg is not a very harsh hero in terms of item builds, anything can work
maybe you can go for an early desolator as a midlane juggernaut, but only if your team is running a cheesy -armor strat. slardar and venge on your team or something similar. on its own it will fall off fast
Thanks slark for the insight. I have t tried mid jugg yet. Bottle should help with spamming spells more compared to safe lane jugg. And I didn't actually consider that bf will allow jugg to spam spells more. But reason I don't get it is cuz i will get it at some stupid timin like 18 mins
avin a giggle there cuz i was muted m8? ill bash yer focking 'ead in i swear on me mum
I think vanguard+aquila and just running at them has more potential than people think. BFury is pretty bad I feel. Blink is usually the extension after manta+diffu.
Why is jugg good? Lowest bat in the game(lv 3 chemical rage beats it but need lv16) great hp regen with ward wave clear with 90 mana deal good damage on early game spin. Omni is relevant till late gane since its a physical damage. He can solo kill most hero at lv 6. I prefer to go manta diff blink. If teamfight breaks i can blink kill support then if the fight when wrong just spin tp out. Go abyssal for lockdown get butter for hp skadi for good balance of hp and damage.
I prefer samne 4 4 1 2 then maxing.
And trust me i used to build bf all games..
And when i changed to diffusal manta style into dagger god the results are better than b4 and by a food margin :)
Juggernaut wont scale as high ha spec and medusa and wk for that matter and ull fall behind so better end game quick with this build coz ur always at ur peal from lvl 1 with the blade fury :)
"Jugg mid is a joke try jugg safe lane Ez"
> normal skill advice, meanwhile jugg is played in both lanes in competitive matches
Jugg mid is a joke?
People should stop using only their experiences for discussions like this
Not to mention jugg offlane is SITUATIONALLY good (not exactly offlane but 2nd carry but whatever)
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
how do you play this god awful hero. general thoughts on items (i tried blink, then i tried skadi into butterfly. seems good, but not sure why i would get those items). and also how do u farm (No bf) on a hero that needs to fight so much with his team? should i be spamming spin to farm faster? also what do u do about early game bullshit mana pool?