General Discussion

General DiscussionDamn @ phantom lancers winrate

Damn @ phantom lancers winrate in General Discussion
Lokieleven

    When I first entered dota everybody hated pl, nicknamed cancer lancer. What happened to the hero 💔

    Murranji

      The Icefraudening (note this is going since he had his rework, not even going to compare him to his old skillset).

      Direct and indirect nerfs to hero itself:

      Reduced agility gain twice (from 4.2 to 3 and then to 2.6)
      Added cast time to doppelwalk
      Reduced number of max illusions
      Diffusal blade changed to do increased mana drain damage from main heroes, but less damage from illusions

      Meta changes:

      Power creep from numerous other heroes who have been buffed majorly or continuously while PL has not had a single buff since his rework 6 patches ago
      AoE damage dealing heroes are often picked (Sven, battlefury Juggernaut build is the go to build over MoM build again, other common battlefury builders like PA and AM or heroes who can itemise battlefury like FV are popular picks, Mirana+Aghs clears out all PL illusions in a single go, Drow Aghs+Mjollnir gives drow a reliable method of countering PL, Timbersaw counters PL harder than PL counters Timbersaw unless very far ahead etc)
      Echo sabre on AoE heroes clears illusions even faster.
      AoE magic damage increased through aether lens and change to intelligence granting extra magic damage which helps clear illusions faster. Aether lens also makes supports safer since they can cast spells from longer away.
      Rain drops can fuck PL's spirit lance which is necessary for securing kills in the early/mid game.

      The fact he is able to maintain a 45% winrate is probably pretty much down to those rare games where he doesn't get countered by a bajillion forms of AoE+the inevitable earthshaker counterpick.

      Lokieleven

        I miss the older patches

        Rain

          Where earlier he used to be a God of the late game, he's more of a good mid laner now in my opinion, who falls off later in the game. Get bottle, spam spirit lance. Rush diffusal, make use of ur sudden power window. Cuz late game, even his previous preys (single target heroes like troll, jugger) can now beat him. He still beats the shit out of wraith king tho, but who picks wk anyway? :p

          AMADOOSE

            The hero is still viable if last picked, hes right where he should be honestly, he was the cancer lancer for a reason.

            Now we need slark to be nerfed too to actually have a fucking balanced game.

            Edit: And arc warden removed.

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            Chadzpyre

              Go to Meta Tab, see which heroes get spammed >20% pick in high mmr games, realize they are all too good and just play them every game until they get nerfed. PL may eventually get his turn there.

              Odinn21

                Although I'm a normal skill player, I'd like to believe I'm a decent PL player. Here's my thoughts why PL got weaker;
                - Illusions deal less manaburn damage right now due to changes in Diffusal Blade.
                - Also, Abyssal is changed.
                =With Abyssal now having Vanguard and illusions dealing less manaburn damage, you are basically 1v1 against the enemy carry most o the time and PL isn't that strong if his illusions are worthless. Also, now it's far easier to realize which one is the real.
                - Drums got nerfed massively for agility players. We were skipping Treads and getting Drums+Travel build. If you still go for Travel build, you'll skip Drums and PL is way too fragile at that moment. Personally, after getting Diffusal and Travel, I rush to Skadi even before Manta.
                - Doppleganger didn't have a cast time. It now has. Sometimes you can not dodge stuns even though you can see them coming.
                - His agi gain went to 2.6 from 3.0. This wasn't that huge, tho.

                Besides direct nerfs to him and his build;
                - Axe's Counter Helix dealing pure now. Which is annoying for a PL player since Axe is a direct counter. If you get called, you'll probably lose one third of your HP.
                - Sand King is in the meta right now. And SK with Aghs causes so much trouble to PL. When I play PL against SK, I warn my teammates to put a distance from myself. Especially my support teammate can get killed with 1 stun.
                - Lastly, since 6.87 it's HP meta rather than mana meta. What I mean, Storm Spirit and Leshrac were the strongest heroes at TI5 time. And that's why manaburning heroes (particularly PL and AM) getting picked many many times. Although current meta is by far the most balanced meta I've ever seen, there's no reason to pick PL unless it's the most obvious counter pick. [Tho, I pick him if there isn't counter pick because he is my comfort pick.]

                Overall; PL isn't that almighty late-game carry any more. He's more of a mid-late game carry. You need to be close out the game after 3-4 major items. If PL is 6 slotted and enemy carry is 6 slotted, PL likely will lose.

                CoL.Limmp

                  pl ember are very situational picks they never went out of meta

                  Pom Pom 🍕

                    He lost his late game dps power in favour of stronger midgame, and more manaburn with less items (his manaburn potential is close to AM's even after the DB changes).

                    He also lost his bonus magic resistance from the old ultimate, making him way squishier against aoe magic counters than before.

                    On the other hand vanguard works on illusions and builds into abyssal now, which let's him get earlier lockdown while giving him needed toughness (you can often tp away from him when he doesnt have basher too).

                    He's a very different hero from the cancer lancer in 2013.

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                    quity

                      also he was complety reworked, anyone remembers that?

                      matrice

                        Yeah, I've a game, in which I used a doppleganker illusion, and a lance illusion, and pushed against megacreep with their offspring, and from those illusion, I pushed back the whole lane to opponent's base, and raxed them, while staying in my base.

                        That was so cool (and horrible for enemy, but they kind of diserved, since they didn't even tryed to defend)