It's a theory that valve put people they don't want to win in a hidden pool together so they lose more. This includes smurfs, people who are regularly reported or even people using programs to run dota multiple times on one machine. Of course, valve has never confirmed that such a pool exists.
Forced winrate is bullshit, however i wouldn't be surprised if people with more reports got paired into games with other people with more reports.
And im not just talking about low prio...
![[ALL HAIL THE TINY SNEK GOD]](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/8e/8e431b3ff76ce3bbc9dd9962dca8994b5946527f_full.jpg "[ALL HAIL THE TINY SNEK GOD]")
I managed to get a 17 winstreak and then bad teams for a long time after
its not forced i guess, its balancing. when ur at the lvl of gud, system paired u with bad player so he can rise, same with the other team. btw ur whole team mmr is the same right? so when ur gud u will rise in other match, then when he still bad he will get down periodically.
I don't get reported often, I am not a smurf, and I only run dota on my computer. I just will win 10 in a row or so then lose 10 in a row. And none of the games are even close
Hidden pool existance is confirmed due to player behaviour status, which u can check in console. Its true that when u are on winning streak u get paired with people from hidden pool - the most toxic part of dota cummunity.
There is no solution to overcome that but ez way for a more even game is:
1) If u have a decent internet connection and usually connect as the first one - Check other people profiles.
2) If u find out that 3 out of 4 teammates are on big losing streaks, or win barely 3/15 of their last games - its usually an obvious loss.
3) Dodge the game. W8 5 minutes and start searching again.
I always check my teammates when the game starts, cos i like playing support recently. I dont want carry on 10 losing streak, who is probably an acc buyer. Weird fact is that sometimes u are paired with people with 3/15 wins in recent games against people who barely lose any games. IS THIS BALANCE THAT VALVE IS TALKING ABOUT ? How such thing can be called balance if you're put into game with such people against good players ?
PS. 1 more thing - DRAFTING
How many games u lose cos of bad draft ?
Use your god damn brain and be polite to your teammates.
Stop being assholes and pick what your team needs - but also a hero that u are fammiliar with.
It actually wouldn't surprise me if Valve did pair winstreaks with lose streaks. not to hold people back but to ensure losers stick around and carry on playing.
that's not the reason you are losing after a winstreak though. it is because you aren't good enough to win the game for your team because the game has gotten harder.
^ lol ?
U mean when i get +25, game has gotten 2 times harder ? And im now too weak to carry the team cos im 4725 instead of 4700 ? Oh come one. We are not even talking about that.
We are talking about balance. Pls read. Aftere winning streaks u will find yourself getting people with crap win rates in recent games against DOTO gods, cos system see u as next Meracle that can carry your team with Lich support.
Since when did going from 4700 to 4725 count as a winstreak? If you say a winstreak was for say 5 games, then yes, the general skill of people around you has gotten better.
Hidden pool, forced winrate - excuses for just refusing to accept the fact that you are not good enough, and need to improve.
personally i find if i drop 200mmr i climb back up really easily. there is a definite difference every 200-300 mmr.
You win some you lose some.... But i do think theres something like a hiddenpool my last vhs for instance i got a solo safelane lion, a agro duo jugger/wd and a solo mid templar me myself when to the jungle since i didnt get myofflane nor the safelane and the game went as it went but whatever on the opposite side they played liked they bootcamped for 6 months :D
personly i played shit but my teammates played even worse and some just as bad so :D fun times
Trust me there's games where it comes down to the end and we just lose. But i know for the most part it's not that I'm "not good enough" here's an example:
I lost this game at around 3.2k mmr during my losing streak. Not even close I felt hopeless. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2295204364
Note the level 8 mid sf, vs their lvl 5 mid invoker.
But I won this game on my prior winning streak at 3.4k mmr. Also not a close game. http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2292851814
When I play bad I can admit it, but this is honestly a case of retarted teammates
I lost a game once because the Illuminati sent Dogs wearing Gorilla costumes on my team. It had nothing to do with me constantly playing like a total idiot and everything to do with a hidden pool.
Btw i know they were doges wearing gorilla costumes because thats the easiest way to lose a game and i really know how valves hidden pool works. you can trust me 100%
......most of your losses you are feeding........ Yet it has to be a valve conspiracy......... Dun Kruger working overtime.....
yeah such a feeder, not my team at all...
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2295453206
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2293409093
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2293019312
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2292949425
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2293455018
lol don't post stupid shit unless you can back it up.
idk, dude, like - even the matches u listed as proof for ur team holding ur back, arent quite good in showing it. u just WANT to see it as ur team's fault.
smtimes ur guys do bad, sometimes the other team sucks, sometimes u suck. if u suck less than everyone els, you usually grind mmr no matter what.
Try not to blame the game. Watch the replays of the game(s) you lose and you'll probably come to the conclusion that you did make mistakes that contributed to the loss as well.
^Op - Hidden pool is 100% true, how else can valve deal with excessive amounts of acct boosting running which is rather common these days etc, that's the only solution. Agreed with whatever Lex said. Though it may not be the case with every winning streak , hidden pool certainly exists for most of them. Also hidden pool may not exactly be proportional to ur win streak but would have some sort of a random balance. Whoever thinks otherwise is probably delusional or is hired by value to say so, xd.
^most boosters do not believe in hidden pool themselves, afaik, and do not struggle getting over 50 wins in a row in potato brackets.
do not state retarded bullshit if u barely know anything, cz ppl reading this stuff will be sure that u posted it cz you are confident and aware of how this shit works.
also, the legend of hiddenpool is not related to the myth of forced 50% winrate. hidden pool is based on players' behavior score, while forced 50% winrate is related to win/loss streaks.
forced 50% winrate exists with 0% probability and is a nonsense; hidden pool might exist, but the probability is very low, definetely less than 10%.
Personally I belioeve if you are better then the rest you will float to the top however, I do believe there is a "hidden pool" I go on a winning streak and I check profiels of team mates and opponents EVERY single time. If I start talking shit one or two games and get reported the next ghame or two I will check the winrates of my team mates and all of a sudden you have
You = 9-1
#2 = 2-8
#3 = 1-9
#4 = 5-5
#5 = 1-9
THen you go to the opponents and us ee the opposite. Last 10 games Players buy sentries. Next game with the 1-9's Nobody will buy sentries but me. Hiddenpool? Maybe.
There is not one but I really want Valve to use wr as a secondary parameter (combined with mmr) to find players even if it takes longer time.
To back this up :
u are climbing the ranked with 50+% wr and u get matched with a 40% wr player.Why? Bcuz he is a smurf or boosted or bought account falling down and the only thing binds you together is mmr.Another reason why mmr doesn't represent skill accurately.
Losers must be matched together and so the winners.
Tell me why not
u're playing in normal pool , obvious solution is : get better, get paired with better players
why are these theories still so rampant
so much reporting and cognitive bias
remember all those losses that you blame on sub 50% team? why can't you blame your wins on the sub 50% enemy team instead?
just get good
hidden pool can't melt dank winrates
"why can't you blame your wins on the sub 50% enemy team instead?"
if i win, its cuz im gud, if i lose, its cuz team sucks
lmao
I love hidden pool talks, but I don't know what to say without sounding like a noob. I'm somewhat of a believer, but it's really hard to end up in it, but I think I have been it two or three times over these two years of Dota.
@Triple - My bad was talking about forced 50% wr , fml! Forced 50% wr may not be directly proportional to ur win streak but would have some sort of random balance with ur win streak. And forced 50% wr is somewhere related to hidden pool, suppose if one is on a winstreak , the higher his wr the more his behaviour score would increase since he would be carrying 1v9 almost due to forced 50 wr and then he is paired with teammates from hidden pool. Even in the highest of mmrs just 1 person from hidden pool is enof to ruin a game and the win streak of a pro player, have noticed pros like waga, ee get a retarded teamate\ teammates while on a winstreak who intentionally throw the game. This is just my thoughts though, and the only ones who can confirm how exactly this works would be someone working in valve who designed this mmr system.
Pretty sure it's cuz u can't play on that mmr, then u lose. You either pick garbage heroes, play them bad, build wrong items and lose.
well, i just make a match, and i fall on a total pub games with people disconnecting for no reasons, come back, they say they have connection trouble often. And you know what ? i loose. more than that: it was only level 7 -> 10 when i'm about to reach the 40. I was on a 6 winning streack, and dota hated that. They send me a forced pub game
I really hope I dont matched in bad hidden pool. But last game, all 10 players did awesome play , they hold back and stay calm the whole game. I paired 2 times in a row with spectre spammer who buy urn even thought I already get and urn (invoker), but cooperating with other 3 good teammates helps a lot.
Note: enemy team also have bad players, then try to exploit it.
Just pray u dont get matched in bad hidden pool, maybe it works
last 3 games were a 1 hour long game and i think we lose because of my ember, so no hidden pool yet
its obvious, look, everytime you get like 3 match wined, you loose, and sometimes, if you lucky, you get an high winning streack, but, you loose at some point. for me its 97% chance hidding pool and pub matchmaking
am i missing something?
matchmaking tries to find two teams of equal skill, so they both got the same chance of winning - i.e.
a win rate of average player is 50% so the system works....
two exercises for those who think it's a hidden pool:
1) get a coin and flip it 1000 times ad write down your results, see what sort of streaks of heads/tails you get.
2) In a country in which people only want boys every family continues to have children until they have a boy. If they have a girl, they have another child. If they have a boy, they stop. What is the proportion of boys to girls in the country?
every time i see this shamanism used in a vanish attempt to prove a non existent mechanism in MM, i automatically assume the person posting it is an undergraduate kid that doesnt understand probabilities and maths at all.
if u are concerned about MM but in the same time do not know what is random experiment, normal distribution, and variance - please, for god's sake, start with reading wiki. keep ur lack of education private.
How do you explain then Mr SMITHSKY that sometimes you get with people your levels for 5 or 6 matches, win, and from no where the 7 matches and the nexts ones you fall with people level 5 - 15 without any experience, and for the 4 peeps in the team (one or two this law level ok, but whole team, exept you with like... a level 40) ? Explain
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
Yeah yeah I've heard it there's no such thing. But it's a bit odd that as soon as I hit 54% winrate, I started getting shit team after shit team. You can look at the games, for the most part I did more than my part. But it's literally like they don't like anyone winning too often. It happens every time I go on winning streaks.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/195428479/trends?metric=win