Wow!
However I think that euls is a pretty viable option as well, used in the same way you would on Lina.
But I find a rather small dilemma here. First off is that some position 4 heroes build mek for their team, most of them are jungling supports. Assuming you run seeker in the jungle, pop to lane to bloodrage your low hp carry, you don't pose the same threat lets say a chen would. I would suggest getting greaves.
BUT if one of your cores want to build a mek you can build more "damagey" items or utility. Something of a viper mid or tide offlane.
But I'm very interested in this Bloodseeker support and I'm going to play him ASAP. Cheers mate.
Well I think he would work best in a combo. The ones I was thinking was either Viper or Drow. Depending on which lane you went would probably affect which, if you're taking safelane you want the Drow which scales into the late game better but if you are going offlane then Bloodseeker Viper works best. The reason this combo is nasty is the orbs of these heroes slow enemy heroes, so you have them start orb attakcing, then you cast the spell and the enemy hero should be slowed enough that they get caught by the silence. Also the orb harassment in lane gets more effective since you are increasing your allies damage and they are able to attack them without taking harassment back. I'm going to try and test it out with a friend and I'll report back.
Alright it didn't work out so well but I blame my team mate for poor positioning and our other team for picking crappy heroes. I'm sure if it's in a good team you can do fine.
If I'm building arcane boots>aether>atos then why would I pick BS?
You could just build euls and accomplish the same stuff and be able to cancel TPs
I would have just assumed this thread was a joke if it wasn't for you actually trying it
I'm going to have to agree with a previous poster and say that
this is the most FUCKNIGN SUTPID SHIT ivke read all day.
There are so many things wrong with your logic for supporting this playstyle that I'm not even going to try. Your comparison to Lina Aghs was by far the most outlandish as they are no comparable in the slightest. It's as if we were to compare Lycan wolves to NP's treants.
1/10 please delete this abomination.
Actually, a jungling-support hybrid bs is viable, tried it a few times but not with that kind of build though, you dont really want that; too expensive and aether lens is quite useless. You want to be more useful, i go drums, aquila and treads (1875+925+1350=3100) as core then see what items need buying for a position 4 bs.
Hello Dotabuffers!!! First of all thanks a lot for this awesome guide. I gained 200 mmr in one day and went from 3300 to 3500 just because of this seeker build. I am on 64.29% winate in 14 games that I played with just this build and I should note here that the games I've been losing were only because of my stupid middle players (with a 0-5 sf first 5 min against invoker or with an invoker who can't cast his spells). My KDA ratio in my lost games are good too, I've been able to kill their carries even when we are down by 20 kills or something.
I need to note here that I've met a slark against me who went bkb build to counter me and died to my Blood Rite thinking he can dodge it with BKB.
Here the proof of my 64% winrate: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/126734418/matches?date=week&hero=bloodseeker&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any&timezone=Pacific%2FPago_Pago
Thanks again for the guide :D
TLDR:
Bloodseeker no longer has a good early game because he doesn't get any extra damage from thirst in the laning stage when previously he would be getting +30 damage at level 3, this prevents him from snowballing and he has to rely on just farming normally like other carries. He also sucks very badly as a carry unless he is ahead since he is out carried by most other carries with equivalent farm.
So instead of building him like a carry you build him to focus on the spells other than thirst. Bloodrite is a large aoe silence/pure damage nuke (362 with aether lens and bloodrage). Rupture is a type of soft lockdown preventing an enemy from moving for up to 12 seconds if they are unable to tp away - or just killing them if they do run. Bloodrage is a spell which increases your main carries damage by 40%. Also since you aren't running in right clicking as the main carry you are less likely to be focused down which means bloodraging yourself isn't as much of a liability either.
You build the items aether lens, octarine core, and rod of atos because they complement and strengthen these skills. Ie increasing the damage, cooldown, making the nuke more reliable etc. They also provide the stats/mana necessary to run him as a spellcasting type hero.
You also have the option to buy other support item thingys which complement his spells - eg atos can be switched with a Euls for the set up if you need a way to prevent tping or cancel other channelled spells, force staff can be used to save your allies, but you can also use it on a ruptured enemy, in the super late game even going refresher to rupture two targets at the same time or get off a double bloodrite - effectively a 724 damage nuke and 12 seconds of silence.
Tried it out on a smurf game - http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2096232539. I think that maybe including an early game urn into the build might actually be something useful. Adds another 120 pure damage on top and a little extra strength for survivability though i wonder if it puts the cost of the other items too far out. Double/triple stacking the small camp and then farming it with bloodrite is probably the most effective way to get early game gold/exp.
Tl;dr of the tl;dr: Bloodseeker shit carry, play him as support. Buy these useless items: Aether Lens, Rod of Atos and Octarine.
Rod of Atos seems kind of pointless to me. You slow down one character so he gets silenced. Euls would be way better.
It's amazing some people think that 300 words is 'too long'. How the hell do you get through life with an attitude like that.
@elduryb - atos for the extra hp since the build makes him really quite low on hp early, plus it gets that out of place evasion reduction thing so it's good against evasion items like butterfly/solar crest. But as I said you could substitute it with a Eul's if the Eul's work better - cancelling tps and channelling spells etc.
tl:dr of tl:dr
Bloodseeker's Blood Rite got buffed, and Aether Lens was introduced, he should be played as a position 4 and should spam his AoE in team fights.
Rod of Atos to keep them inside and remove evasion...
Octarine Core - obvious reasons
i actually read all of this
but im so confused atm
i cant even see properly
something is really wrong you guyssss
its too long because you arent good and im not going to spend 5-10 minutes reading 3k theorycraft
If you want slow and hp just get S&Y? Rupture keeps them mostly still anyway (and if they move, you'll be faster so you can hit them).
Eul is better for setting up your silence, since the +ms rather than +%ms goes well with your thirst, the eul does damage to cancel blinks, and can be used both offensively and defensively (eul self to dodge spellls, or eul someone to tp/run away). also cancels tp.
Atos is pretty pointless on this hero, the extra hp doesn't make it worth it over other items. It doesn't go through bkb either, so the accuracy won't be that helpful against butterflies, PAs and such. Better if a support gets it late game instead when bkbs are 5-6s. Or you get yourself an mkb.
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
Bloodseeker is a pretty crappy hero at the moment since the massive nerf in 6.85 destroyed the brief time in the sun which he saw in pubs. He was never even really successful in competitive even during the TI5 patch - picked in 56 matches, banned in 83 and a 41% winrate overall. And then after that he received a nerf on par with what Leshrac got (Lesh was in 121 matches and had a 52% winrate, banned 226 times).
In 5k+ games he was relegated to the 4th lowest winrate over the past 3 months and even in sub 2k games (the trenchiest of tiers where people run around with no vision and coordination and not only don't just TP out of rupture ganks but don't even just stand still - they actually run and run and keep running while under the rupture effect), even in that tier he only manages a 46% winrate.
For a little look at how completely Icefrog bludgeoned Bloodseeker into oblivion you can look at how effective he turned bloodseeker's laning stage into.
Previous level 3 bloodseeker (2 points in thirst):
Enemy team at average 90% hp = +10 damage. 80% hp = +20 damage. 70% hp = +30 damage. 60% hp = +40 damage. 50% hp = +50 damage.
At level 3 with all the enemy heroes on an average 80% health bloodseeker would have 85 damage from stats and thirst.
New level 3 bloodseeker (2 points in thirst):
Enemy team at average 90% hp = 0 damage. 80% hp = 0 damage. 70% hp = +10 damage. 60% hp = +30 damage. 50% hp = +50 damage.
At level 3 with all the enemy heroes on an average 80% health bloodseeker has 65 damage from stats and thirst. A near 25% reduction in damage.
So basically your whole team has to manage to keep the enemy team constantly at under 50% hp for bloodseeker to get the same laning stage like he did in 6.84. Unless you convince your team mates to play drow, viper, clinkz and necrophos and constantly orb harass the enemy heroes, that's extremely unlikely to happen. Bloodseeker clearly falls off extremely hard against equivalent properly farmed hard carries like Spectre, Medusa, Wraith King, Sven, Ursa, Antimage, Phantom Lancer, Phantom Assassin, Juggernaut, Chaos Knight, Slark, Tiny etc etc etc etc. Ie basically his only win condition as a carry was snowballing so hard and so fast that he could finish the game around 40 minutes in before the enemy carry had enough time to catch up in farm. If he couldn't close out the game by then the enemy carry would then simply be able to stand their ground when ruptured and manfight bloodseeker with their far superior damage and he usually lost. Since he now doesn't even have any way to start snowballing in the laning stage since his damage output is no higher than the rest of these carries we see him averaging a 40-45% winrate - ie a complete piece of trash of a hero.
Oh also level 1 blood heal now only heals 19% which works out to 104hp healed from a lane melee creep rather than the previous 137 hp.
However my theory is that a clue to how Icefrog wants Bloodseeker to be played. Rather than undoing the insane nerf to his laning stage or compensating it by increasing the total maximum eg from 10/20/30/40 to 15/25/35/45 etc so that he would at least get more damage in what did he do?
He buffed the cooldown of bloodrite. That's right, the aoe damage/silence spell which gives players 3 full seconds to run out of and deals a maximum of 240 (pure) damage at level 4, or 336 damage with bloodrage had it's cooldown reduced by a whole 5 seconds at level 4 from 20 seconds to 15 seconds. Bloodseeker is clearly being angled into playing a support position 4 role.
Consider Bloodseeker with Aether Lens. It increases the cast range of rupture from 1000 to 1200. The cast range of bloodrage goes from 800 to 1000 and most important of all the cast range of bloodrite goes from 1500 to a godly 1700 (the aoe remains the same though).
Even better than that aether lens affects both the damage dealt by bloodrite and rupture! An aether lens turns bloodrite from a 240/336 damage aoe nuke (with a 3 second delay) into a 259/362 damage aoe nuke. And since this is pure damage it completely ignores magic resistance.
Think about that, a 362 damage pure damage nuke on a 15 second cooldown. Lina Aghs is 850 damage on a 50 second cooldown meaning that in the time Lina casts 1 Laguna blade of 850 damage Bloodseeker has gotten off 1086 damage worth of nukes, and all with an item which costs about half as much as an Aghs sceptre.
Chuck an Octarine Core on top and it turns into an 11.25 second nuke which heals bloodseeker by 90hp for each hero he hits and increases his nuke damage to 1810 over 55 seconds - twice as much as Lina Aghs.
As for rupture it's just as good. Say a level 3 ruptured hero moves 300 distance points (the radius of bloodrite). Normally he would take 180 damage. With an aether lens this increases all the way up to 194!
There is the slight issue with heroes just being able to run out of the AoE of bloodrite so that is where the 3rd of Bloodseeker's core items comes in. Rod of Atos was buffed with the weirdest buff for god knows what reason (providing 40% extra accuracy against evasion) so that makes it even better I guess. It also has it's cast range increased by aether lens and the cooldown reduced by octarine core and guarantees that you will be able to keep an enemy hero inside the aoe of bloodrite.
In total the 3 items give bloodseeker:
800 extra hp.
1365 extra mana.
12hp regen.
15% magic resistance.
All for the low low cost of 11300 gold.
And lets face it if you run bloodseeker as a position 4 support you are really should be trying to take the farm of a position 1 carry so should be able to afford it.
If you don't believe me just check out Bloodseeker's item page for this month - https://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/bloodseeker/items
77% winrate on Octarine Core.
60% winrate on Aether Lens.
59% winrate on Rod of Atos.
Compare that to things like "Blademail" on 48%, "Shadow Blade" on 46% and "Dragon Lance" on 46%.
Sure some people might flame you for wasting 11k gold on some items which only increases your unreliable nuke damage by 19 points and lets you cast it 4 seconds faster. But just think to yourself why else would Icefrog have "buffed" the hero by reducing the cooldown of his least reliable ability from 20 to 15 seconds seconds after completely and utterly wiping out the only advantage which bloodseeker had over other better carries if not to point people towards building aether lens and octarine core on the hero?