General DiscussionWill Legion Commander ever be viable in the pro scene?

her overall. picking her is like gambling every duel.

Will take some pros running it as something besides an offlane. If that happens maybe it could snowball.

In some ways she would be good against some of the popular current carries.

Imo she needs to much of a snowball so its mostly a gamble..

pub wise, especially here in 3k bracket, people always get caught out of position, so u kind of have guaranteed duels unless they are stomping u

She was a big part of the meta a year ago. She was picked nearly every pro game until her nerf. IMHO what she will need to be viable again is probably a slight reduction on cast time for her spells and possibly a slightly higher % for double attacking or maybe slightly more ATK speed. Either that is the meta shifts into her favour, allowing some of the weaker offlanes back into the meta and possibly increasing the number of junglers out there. So maybe a nerf to BH and BS and possible a few others as well as maybe some jungle creeps Gold awarded increasd slightly. THose are just a few changes that could steer her toward being much more viable.

The big prob of legion is, everyone play all in on the duel.

You know, even without dagger / shadow blade or w/e movement item, you will land your duel.
When you build it very tanky, it's actually really strong, but no1 play it that way...

Matrice, what items would you get?
Drums, Blademail into ... ?

If duel can disable passives again, shell be pick again other than that shes pretty balance atm though a buff on odds or increase in stats might come next patch

What carries were most popular in TI? Gyro, PL, SS (eh), and what?

You telling me a safelane LC with a strong off lane wouldn't be handy vs this?

I think LC is in the perfect balance where he gets enough play, but isn't considered a meta hero (like windrunner or witchdoctor)

I really love playing Legion Commander. Especially in this meta where Storm Spirit and Pudge are picked a lot. She is also great against invis heroes.

I will go safe lane and take a poor man's shield and a tango. I take Moment of Courage as first skill. Now you can stand in the middle of the creepwave, get hit and farm really quickly. Also, you can easily zone out the other heroes, because you can run up to them and lifesteal them. In the early game this is incredibly strong. This will push the lane, which allows you to farm in the jungle and lifesteal to get your health back if you were attacked by enemy heroes. I prioritize moment of courage and Press the Attack. I will put one skill into Overwhelming Odds for the harass. So 1-2-3-0 at lvl 5.

First item after starting items is of course threads. After threads I go blade mail. She has really fast movement speed, so its acutally easy to get duels in the early game, so I prioritize BM over blink. Especially against Storm spirit the blade mail works really well. After blade mail I get blink. Its better than shadow blade, because it provides more movability and does not take mana.

After that it depends. Hyperstone is good, because her attack speed has to be boosted. Also, if you duel, they will throw everything at you, so getting Assault Curass on top of your blade mail is actually a viable choice (AC has a 75% winrate on dotabuff). After that a damage item is nice, such as desolator, MKB or deadalus. This will make you an unstopable force. The enemy need to fear your BM, blade, duel combo. Getting the duel wins will make you spiral out of control. Dont rush them though, be patient and timing is key.

Here is an example of a game which I owned yesterday: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1810399213 My farm in the early/mid game was way better than sniper's, but he caught up after shooting the towers and rax of the enemy. My Hero Damge was way higher too.

^ trust this guy he knows legion well... kappa

"I will put one skill into Overwhelming Odds for the harass."

That's terrible - one skill point in a spell that does not get a higher mana cost, and does shit damage for 100 mana, out of your pretty bad mana pool early?

If you're laning and getting OO, either get 3-4 levels in it or get none if you want to focus on PTA for duels. I don't even cast the spell until it's like level 3 because mana's pretty costly and it's a pretty long cooldown for next to no damage.

Don't use OO if your opponents can eat a tango to regain the full health up.

LVL1 OO, if you get 2 heroes and 4 creeps, that'll be base 40 damage + 20*2 damage for heroes and 14*4 damage for creeps, so that's a measly 136*0.75=102 damage IF YOU GET BOTH HEROES AND ALL CREEPS in a wave :|

Compare that to a level 4 OD, which is 160 + 20*4 + 65*2 = 370*0.75 = 277.5 damage, which is much better, and you can actually get people killed if you're any smart with getting people low before you use this, or running up to them for a duel.

Obviously, if you're not laning and are only gonna leave the jungle after the stage's over, OO is no longer that useful as you should build your physical DPS, but if you don't max it or get at least lvl3 in it in the laning stage I think it's a huge mistake.

Well, as you can see from the dotabuff, it worked incredibly well. 18.9k HD when the next only did 11.1k...

Legion Commander does almost nothing with here mana pool at the early lvls (1-5). Push the attack is ok, but usually not necessary when laning, because you get regen from lifesteal anyway. Also, the lifesteal has a small cooldown. OO does little damage, but you can spam it. Sure they can tango up, but they will burn through their tango's.

She was a pretty popular mid at her release actually, then got undeserved nerfs.

.:Storm:. Dude, I don't care about that single match, I've had matches where I've played like a moron and still got +400 damage bonus and ended up backdooring the ancient all by myself. No matter how much you play like an idiot, your opponents can be worse. And you should learn from your mistakes, not think you did well because things worked out because your opponents are dumber than you are. Most of my matches are (sadly) jungle lc, because I just can't get lane when everyone's presuming I will go to fucking woods. But I suck it up and try to carry the team if they don't lose the game with now weak lanes.

You have 40% winrate with legion, with 1.40 KDA, in Normal Skill. We are also both Normal Skill, so we are not punished for stupid shit we both do, but you're even worse than I am, holy shit, I have no idea how you manage that.

The thing is, not maxing nukes during the laning stage, but still using them (even though they have persistent mana cost and cooldown) is just stupid, there's literally no arguing there. You were not punished for your inefficiency and against better players you would be, it's that simple. If you want not to have terrible wr and kda with that hero try playing well, so that you can do good against good opponents, as well, not only against braindead people.

Pros despise melee carries, how many melee carries do you ever see in pro play? AM was kinda popular at TI but mainly for his ability to counter some big caster types + flash farm. Lycan was popular a while ago but played as pusher, not carry. Tiny and ck only useful when they do a wisp lineup. SK is played as a support, jug is picked sometimes but not really popular, BH is played as support, PA, void, sven are never picked, DK is picked but has ranged form. Catch my drift?

My winrate is low, because I used to build her all wrong. Since this build I have been winning with her. Yesterday I won 3 games using my strat. I went 1-1-3, because Veno joined the lane and I needed to purge poison. Worked like a charm. My winrate went up.

15-6-15, must be pure luck right? http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1812660397 That storm spirit won his previous 4 matches, but I could easily handle him.

This hero is kinda no my type of hero :p, i think that if they buff aghs to disable passives (and keep the endless duel) and maybe increase her mana pool a bit she will be viable. I dont whink that an AS buff is the way to go.
Aghs is shitty in this hero but if you build very tanky isnt so bad.

she was picked a fair amount in DAC against brood if im not mistaken