I generally start joining fights after bfury vlads manta, but rarely do I have a team that can actually fight 4v5 for first 20 minutes. Sometimes i've skipped vlads to go straight manta, that had mixed results, but i will try that again
When to fight? When the enemy has used all of its disables, so you can blink next to one person, give him some hits and do the Mana Void. As AM you rarely ever should actively look for fights, just farm and push the lanes at the same time to force the enemy to go back, hence create space for your team.
"I tend to splitpush with him, but by the time I come online and truly ready to fight team has already lost a few skirmishes and its over."
Sounds like either your farm is still rather slow or your team is bad at playing around AM. Well since you're normal skill you should put him aside since AM is deceptively hard, you might need to develop other aspects in your game before picking him up, and work on carries that counter AM well if you encounter AM pickers in normal.
if enemy have stuff like storm/lesh/similar stuff you should always be ready to join fights (tp ready/gravitate farming patterns towards places fights u think will occur)
otherwise wait for your manta is the safest choice
most of the time pre-manta just tp once you determine its a winnable fight thats also the time when there are the most voidable targets available
Welll it depends when you can actually win the fight.
AM doesnt shine when he has the same farm as the opponent, you have to have 1-2 items above enemy carry. Like, when gyro has lets say, phase, aquila, hotd/drums and sny/bkb you should probably have treads, vlads, manta and maybe butterfly, and if you did well + basher, or basher + bkb.
but you can take fights before, try to aim for the supports in the backline, and then depending on how the fight is going you decide if stay or blink out.
Another thing, try to splitpush when a fight is about to happen, force 1-2 enemy rotations, blink out, TP and force the fight 5vs4 or 5vs3.
but usually u have to tell you teammates to make the jump, bcuz most of the time they wont jump because they are waiting for the "perfect initiation" or smth. And i know its hard cuz we play in the same, 3k shittrash bracket, but you have somehow to convince your team to make the jump, most of the time they just waste time farming jungle and getting ganked or farm whenever a lane pushes. Either that or tell them to stay behind you amd search for pickoffs.
i usually dont fight until manta + one big item( usually butterfly, i used to go abyssal or bkb + basher, well, or course i go bkb when needed, but if they dont have insane amount of lockdown, i go butterfly as its such a good item both for fighting and splitpushing) unless enemy is knocking on my T3, but even then i try to force rotations and then take the fight.
If you are really forced to fight before manta, look for that good Mana Void as it really can change the outcome of the fight.
never fight if you doubt whether you should or not; but if for some reason you q'ed on russian server, fight whenever possible.
Generally you should not enter fights, before your battlefury is done, IF there is not a 100% guarenteed kill. Manavoid does too little on lvl 1, also the manacosts of most spells are not big enough.
Splitpushing can also be better, even IF you could get a kill. If you could take the safelane t1 of the enemy, its a big stratigc +, since you cut enemys farmspace. The enemy offlane t1 for example isnt so important. Beyond the 25 min mark you can sometimes get heavy shots on their t3 or rax if they do not pay attention. Generally you should start to dictacte the enemy movement after 18-20 min. The enemy should always be forced by you to def their towers, so they can't clump and start teamfights before you are ready. This allows your team to take objecitves as 4, since rotating 1 enemy doesnt do much harm to you. To kill AM you need at least 2, if not overfed.
After your Battlefury and hitting lvl 11: You should be close to the fights. It might cost you 1 tp and 20 sek farming, but maybe you can get some kills. Just stay back, take a look at the fight, jump in when all spells are casted and use void on the enemy with the biggest mana spend. Do not rush in, when something dangerous is still available. Thx to your high ms you can also run down the enemy. If the fight goes horrible and your team gets wiped, just do not enter and proceed farming.
Take objectives OR be close to the fight. Sitting in the jungle while teamfights go on is the most stuipid thing many AMs do. If the enemy is occupied fighting take their towers. It cuts their farmspace and the area of safe movement on the map+ gifs your team gold. Your supports will appreciate it.
Gotvet is talking bullshit with his normal skill... Vlads is almost a must have for AM. Beside Burning every AM builts it nowadays (Black, Fear, RTZ, Illidan). it allows you to solorosh once your manta is up, it gifs manaregen, so you never run out of it, you can heal on creeps after ganks, you can take stacks, it amplifies your splitpush with illus (aura for creeps). The small pieces can help you in the laning stage. A naked ror or ring of protection can do wonders against harrassment.
VAGA Feeds has also his point: After manta you SHOULD be in almost every fight. Still: A T3 is better than a teamfight at your T1.
Just go with the flow. Spam the hero. You will get a feeling for it.
to @OP
Im sick of your retarded threads, pls stop it already no one gives a F about you or what you're trying to achieve
There is no proper 'when'.
Just because you picked up that Manta doesn't mean its time to go hunt because your enemies might still be substantially stronger.
The only time you're going to join fights is when you're stronger than the enemy team. You don't have to be a genius to realize when you're stronger and when you're not. Just because you only have a fury+vlads doesn't mean you can't join fights if you're 3 levels higher than their mid. Likewise you could have a fury,vlads,manta,basher and still not be farmed enough to join fights.
@Abunai Aite depends on enemy pick and ur speed of farming. Usually, if u feel ok and there are not a lot of burst dmg and disables, u can try fighting 3v3 2v2 with ur teammates for towers and shit, only having battlefury+pt. Usually antimages start fighting together when they have manta onboard, but you should keep in mind one easy thing. Noob antimages initiate fights by jumping in and dying by catching all the disables and shit. You need to wait until somebody of ur team initiates fights, then you can jump on a hero, that used his spells and disables, otherwise you are gonna be dead very fast. Also try getting more than 3 lvl stats, that can help. Try stretching enemy team by splitpushing, and fight 4v5 or even less. Splitpushing is the strongest am's side. One of important things is controlling map and avoid dying during the farm. Because a lot of antimages in my pubs keep dying so they lost a lot of money and cant continue pushing and shit.
You can believe me as I am in the top100 of dotabuff on antimage with good wr&kda. Anyways you can keep some of these things i written in mind and you will play much better on this one of the best heroes in dota
Anti Mage is sort of effective at fighting once he gets Battle Fury and Treads. However, you should only start fighting once you have a Manta Style, and only attempt to solo-kill once you get a Basher on top of all the previous items. An Anti Mage should be fighting around 25-35 mins (depending on farm speed), and a solo killing AM usually comes about around 30-40 mins (again, depending on how fast you're able to get all your items). Showing up late to a teamfight early in the game just to get off a crucial Mana Void is also perfectly acceptable. As far as items go, only get Vlads if you're against a Bloodseeker (to prevent him from getting the Thirst buff when you're jungling), and you really don't want to have to get BKB on Anti Mage, but if they have 2-3 silences and a lot of stuns, you might be forced into buying it, which is alright but not preferred.
Vlads only against BS? what are you talking about.
with it you can farm stacks of ancients, solo rosh, solve mana problems and gives you sustain in jungling, you skip vlads only if they got fast orchid
You should be able to get BF before min 15 and then dissapear in jungle to get vlad manta min 25 then you can go and end the game. you can join fights just to use ulti for last hit. or on some picks offs that happens nearby but thats only in case fight happens somewhere close around you. dont go and look for fight because your loosing 700 gold per minute maybe more if your not farming. BUT even with the hardest trylane against you you should find away to get your bf before 18 because if you dont you lost it doesnt matter how hard the lane is you have to find a way. if you cant farm on a lane get the hell out and go look for a free one or ask your mates to let their lane for you and join fight to give you space
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
I started off with a 24% winrate after 10-15 games as AM. I've brought it up to 42% for now, but I still face problems regarding when to fight with team.
I tend to splitpush with him, but by the time I come online and truly ready to fight team has already lost a few skirmishes and its over.
When do you guys think is the best time to help out in fights? after bfury vlads? or even earlier?