The heroes are so different they need different lineups and counter different things, it's an apples to oranges comparison. They're both fruit.
Spectre almost always goes safelane and needs her team to initiate fights so she can farm heroes for gold. Dusa needs space so she can farm with split shot. Dusa can offlane or middle sometimes.
Tb is growing stronger, cause he is a huge dps dude, which will scale even better when his team will have additional lockdown, and also when support and everyone in his team will be able to actually be in front instead of him. And thus even if he is 6 slotted, he will benefit from the stuff of ally much more than other carry.
At a certain point, you also no longer can be alone, unless having HUGE mobility. And tb become even stronger due to that momentum. He can stay with his team and still split everylane, thus forcing opponent to spread.
And last but not least, tb is one of the heroes that benefit the most from chicken + additional item.
Be it some shadow blade armlet dagger eb/dagon build to get one guy out (and then taking back the damage stuff ^^). To the casual refresher to send tons of illusion on tower.
Ps: Naga is not a hard carry, (being a hard carry has nothing to do with splitting with illu)
Yeah what zenoth wrote is a bit akward, cause zeus doesn't have mobility lockdown or wave clear at all :p (well if normal creep, it's still decent cleaning)
However, zeus by his combo with refresher, does (without counting bkb,eb,veil, or even the damage of his spell !!! ) 50% of enemy's life just by static field, and that's a ~3sec combo -lightning,bolt,ult,lightning refresh, repeat-.
So he is almost winning the teamfight by himself if, either he can cast after an engage of tide/magnus, or if he survive the 5sec of bkb of enemy team.
I would actually rather write that Zeus is a carry and not hard carry (mainly cause he cann't win 1v1 encounter)
But a special one with 3 peaks (countrary to most carry that have one or two peak):
1) early game, 2) when getting mobility+utility item 3) refresher (3 can happen before 2 though)
It's a special carry cause usually carry have one or 2 peak (and usually played in a way that one peak is skipped, so they have their 2nd peak much stronger (example: potm (can be played either as semi carry or as carry also) played support -so first peak, and then never reach the state of a lot of stuff, so doesn't reach 2nd peak- or tiny, no dagger just farm -so skip first peak, and reach 2nd peak much faster-)
Getting too caught up in distinctions though because it doesn't really matter. What matters is your team is capable of killing enemy towers and that's it. That can be accomplished in a ton of ways. Having spectre vs medusa vs terror blade vs phantom assassin can't be evaluated in a vacuum.
I've seen teams with zero carrys win, like an all retarded push team of necro (well he is sometimes a carry), enigma, dazzle, treant and elder titan. No one seems to consider sniper a super hard carry but if you treat him like a quarterback surround him with a bunch of linemen like centaur and axe he can dish tons of damage in late game and beat tons of "harder" carries.
Same with razor, might be considered not a true carry but his anti carry abilities and the fact his ult goes through bkbs means he can take on entire teams with aghs and referesher if you link the right guy. I've crushed void's and PA's 1v1 with him many times and carried my team to wins.
So it's all relative and you should pick what you like playing more or are better with and what your team needs.
I've played both hero's successfully before and I found that Spectre deals a lot of damage where as Medusa with split shot deals sub par damage to multiple foes which isn't enough even in the late game but I really enjoy medusa more than spectre.
Dusa dealing subpar dmg is because she isn't farmed enough. Spectre's ult is dmg on demand but dusa needs items but once she has them she can do constant damage to whole team and if you manage to bounce a snake while her ulti is up that is a huge nuke, plus increased physical damage to the stone targets.
Pretty much
no one is a hard as a maxed kranken shell tidehunter!
This debate depends too heavily on item picks (BKB or not) and if ults are being used.
My favorite six slot build for late game Spectre is:
Boots of Travel
Heart of Tarrasque
Butterfly
Eye of Skadi
Diffusal Blade (2)
Manta Style
If you're able to get on top of someone and pop your illusions, they get man rolled.
The heroes are so different they need different lineups and counter different things, it's an apples to oranges comparison. They're both fruit.
Spectre almost always goes safelane and needs her team to initiate fights so she can farm heroes for gold. Dusa needs space so she can farm with split shot. Dusa can offlane or middle sometimes.
@epsik-kun
Tb is growing stronger, cause he is a huge dps dude, which will scale even better when his team will have additional lockdown, and also when support and everyone in his team will be able to actually be in front instead of him. And thus even if he is 6 slotted, he will benefit from the stuff of ally much more than other carry.
At a certain point, you also no longer can be alone, unless having HUGE mobility. And tb become even stronger due to that momentum. He can stay with his team and still split everylane, thus forcing opponent to spread.
And last but not least, tb is one of the heroes that benefit the most from chicken + additional item.
Be it some shadow blade armlet dagger eb/dagon build to get one guy out (and then taking back the damage stuff ^^). To the casual refresher to send tons of illusion on tower.
Ps: Naga is not a hard carry, (being a hard carry has nothing to do with splitting with illu)
@Matrice
I get your point. Not that I completely agree with it, but I get it. Thanks for explaining.
@Zenoth
If it's about mobility, lockdown and wave clear (I still think Dusa has second too), then why Zeus? I'm genuinely curious.
Yeah what zenoth wrote is a bit akward, cause zeus doesn't have mobility lockdown or wave clear at all :p (well if normal creep, it's still decent cleaning)
However, zeus by his combo with refresher, does (without counting bkb,eb,veil, or even the damage of his spell !!! ) 50% of enemy's life just by static field, and that's a ~3sec combo -lightning,bolt,ult,lightning refresh, repeat-.
So he is almost winning the teamfight by himself if, either he can cast after an engage of tide/magnus, or if he survive the 5sec of bkb of enemy team.
I would actually rather write that Zeus is a carry and not hard carry (mainly cause he cann't win 1v1 encounter)
But a special one with 3 peaks (countrary to most carry that have one or two peak):
1) early game, 2) when getting mobility+utility item 3) refresher (3 can happen before 2 though)
It's a special carry cause usually carry have one or 2 peak (and usually played in a way that one peak is skipped, so they have their 2nd peak much stronger (example: potm (can be played either as semi carry or as carry also) played support -so first peak, and then never reach the state of a lot of stuff, so doesn't reach 2nd peak- or tiny, no dagger just farm -so skip first peak, and reach 2nd peak much faster-)
Getting too caught up in distinctions though because it doesn't really matter. What matters is your team is capable of killing enemy towers and that's it. That can be accomplished in a ton of ways. Having spectre vs medusa vs terror blade vs phantom assassin can't be evaluated in a vacuum.
I've seen teams with zero carrys win, like an all retarded push team of necro (well he is sometimes a carry), enigma, dazzle, treant and elder titan. No one seems to consider sniper a super hard carry but if you treat him like a quarterback surround him with a bunch of linemen like centaur and axe he can dish tons of damage in late game and beat tons of "harder" carries.
Same with razor, might be considered not a true carry but his anti carry abilities and the fact his ult goes through bkbs means he can take on entire teams with aghs and referesher if you link the right guy. I've crushed void's and PA's 1v1 with him many times and carried my team to wins.
So it's all relative and you should pick what you like playing more or are better with and what your team needs.
I've played both hero's successfully before and I found that Spectre deals a lot of damage where as Medusa with split shot deals sub par damage to multiple foes which isn't enough even in the late game but I really enjoy medusa more than spectre.
Dusa dealing subpar dmg is because she isn't farmed enough. Spectre's ult is dmg on demand but dusa needs items but once she has them she can do constant damage to whole team and if you manage to bounce a snake while her ulti is up that is a huge nuke, plus increased physical damage to the stone targets.