actually pa wins sf pretty easily (you have no idea how pa mid works do you)
she does well against most mids in laning stage but the problem is how she contributes AFTERWARDS. while pa is a great ganker on paper, she falls behind against other mids in teamfight/runecontrol/ganking which is why i said she's meh just decent at mid
k here's one situation I face when i storm and enemy uses pa, we both doing equally well since we can't really do much to each other right?
until this pa starts to hunt my team's lifestealer again and again........... at the end of the game i got so mad cuz this naix is talking nonsense about me not giving him any kills. I just said, you said you are the carry while you don't even carry a tp scroll to runaway from pa?
She doesn't beat any popular mid hero, but she doesn't lose either because you can't zone her out unless you put yourself out of position.
Think about her as any farming mid (OD, Naga, Morph): you will need at least one big item before joining teamfights. Of course you can gank a sidelane just with boots if you get a decent rune, but you're better farming mid.
lolwat? one raze and pa's health just dropped 50%. bitch blinks at you raze her again and bitch is dead.
^
Why would you go aggresive on SF as PA. Raze is pretty easy to avoid considering that his cast animation isn't good and you can last hit from 1200 units away. And by lvl 6-7 if SF has less than 75% health PA can burst him down without dying.
can the ignorant people stop insisting sf wins pa mid
anyway, if a pa ganks more than a storm, then he does have a right to complain, sorta. i dont think it would have been hard for you to countergank with tp scrolls and storm's mobility. (he probably sucked bad if he kept dying to pa though)
She is a melee. Unless you plan on last hitting from your tower with daggers, you're gonna get hit by raze
I think Pa is great at ganking around lvl 7-8 because of blur, wards can't see her and she does a lot of damage
"Why would you go aggresive on SF as PA. Raze is pretty easy to avoid considering that his cast animation isn't good and you can last hit from 1200 units away. And by lvl 6-7 if SF has less than 75% health PA can burst him down without dying."
Exactly, sf has little hp, no disable/escape, PA can dagger, blink on him and kill him before he razes her down. She could probably do the same to a mid like sniper, but sniper has way more range and can spec shrapnel to keep lane pushed up. OD will imprison her, not an issue. Tinker and zeus can nuke her but it might be kind of close whether she can burst them down. DK will stun her, nuker her. Viper will keep her hp low with poisons/kite her. Storm idk, zip away? Razor will keep her linked any time she gets close but razor might be another she can kill.
SF is by far the easiest though.
You guys are overestimating her damage early on. Lv 1 crit without phase is like 200 dmg. thats less than a raze.
Also, raze is NOT easy to dodge. Again, if you're last hitting under the tower with dagger, then she is not as dominant as you guys say she is.
@Führer: That's her main strenght. If she gets pushed back she can last hit with her dagger (6 sec cd means at least 3 last hits per wave). A fast bottle or a RoB/RoA will give you enough mana regen to spam all you want. Because of this, she won't fall behind in farm even if there are supports missing.
The only one she'd lose the lane would be TA, because she can last hit at the same time she denies you last hits, and there's no way to kill her on your own.
Edit: I (we?) never said she was dominant. I clearly said "She doesn't win the lane, but she doesn't lose it either".
At lvl 7 SF has around 900 HP with PT (Str) and a RoA. If he's at 75% hp, we're talking about 675 hp. One max lvl dagger and one crit is around 360 damage, plus 3 rightclicks (around 80 dmg each with the same build) that blink gives you means 240 damage. So far we have around 600 damage dealt, if you add one more dagger (6 sec CD) that's a dead SF.
Also, you don't jump as a mindlessly monkey when you're playing PA, you wait for oportunities. If your dagger crits (360 pure dmg), SF is dead full health or not.
I think you're underestimating PA's burst capabilities. If she blinks on SF she's getting 4 max attacks off, that's like 340 dmg if she has phase boots minus a bit for armor, maybe 300 dmg? Plus a dagger to the face for 140 rank 3? Plus she'll keep auto attacking you/chase you. One crit on any of those and yeah, she can probably kill SF with one combo, he has less than 600 hp at lvl ~6 right?
And no one is saying she is dominant, she just does well vs a couple mids who can't disable her/stop her burst combo like sniper and sf. though sniper has great range so might be harder.
Edit: Olekskander edit'd response and is better explanation than mine, but same idea.
Well, i don't think PA would get three last hits per wave using only dagger. a decent mid would start denying creeps with 50% less health as soon as she uses the dagger.
You might struggle with lvl 1 dagger (60 pure dmg), but lvl 2 dagger deals 100 pure dmg which is higher than any mid hero's base damage, so I doubt you can deny.
There's a reason why high tier teams run her mid against others high tier teams. There's (more than) a "decent mid" playing there too, and you see PA doing just fine.
She works on mid because she benefits from lvls and you can't zone her out without the help of a support. Of course she melts to magical damage, but you can't kill her unless you commit two or more heroes or she's way out of position.
If you're gonna argue at least think before you talk, because so far you havent brought a single decent argument to the discussion.
do people still play sf?
All i see are tinker, invoker and sometimes the troll pudge/mirana
As for pa mid, fv works well against him (and has better effect later)
I have brought several decent arguments, but it seems you didn't understand most of them. Of course you can't deny against a direct dagger, it deals too much damage. What i'm saying is it has a 6 second cooldown, so as soon as she uses it, a decent player would start denying other creeps so you can't get it.
And what are you even saying about razes? It's not a freaking elder titan stomp, the animation isn't easy to dodge. Maybe as puck, but if you depend on movement, you're most likely going to get hit by it since the AOE is big. She is squishy as hell, and depends on the her evasion to survive, raze doesn't give a fuck about evasion, and two razes and she is almost dead.
And unless she crits three times, she probably won't kill SF, and as soon as SF is under tower and she is running, she'll eat a medium and far raze.
I'd like to point out that blur doesnt work against wards because you need to be within 1600 of an enemy unit to remove yourself from the minimap
SF still gets played a lot, but yeah I see tons of invoker, pudge, viper and bloodseeker. Occasional storm/qop/puck. Rarely see leveling carries in my bracket like dk, brew etc.
^
That's asuming that two or more creeps will be below 50% hp at the same time and that SF won't miss a lh in the meantime. And all that can be controlled if you pull the creep aggro.
I already proved you with maths that you can kill SF as PA at lvl 7, those are actual numbers. If you're gonna try to rebate, please use math because the word "probably" means nothing.
@sodomy
I was sorta finding kills on the top lane and so, regret listening to naix's 1st talking crap of protecting him and trying to do it while he is not being careful at all, and yes about the tp. Very unfortunate that when I tp to top and this guy dies to pa inside the jungle far away from tier 2 tower bot lane
at level 6 the fun starts by spamming Q on your enemy :D
i can show you how 'bad' pa is mid vs sf.
and i aint even playing mid pa, but i could show you. ask me anytime.
@Saoulfou
That's only when enemies come within a certain range of her. She's not permanently invisible on the minimap.
"The Phantom Assassin becomes hard to see by blurring her body and disappearing from the enemy minimap when near enemy heroes. Some enemy attacks miss."
its not particularly hard to get a 15-18 min battlefury and become your team's 1 position from there though
and once shes level 6 she basically autowins the lane since she can start dagger harassing you and if theres a crit youre basically dead
just thought of some things, even if sf just wants to zone out pa by nuking down creepwaves, pa can use this to an advantage to harass sf alot cuz it takes 2 raze to bring down the creeps and with only one left sf wont be able to trade hits with pa at all.Creep damage can be negated with a purchase of stout shield.
Why do you guys discuss pa vs sf? Its ez to answer,if supporters come to gank mid sf dies. Otherwise sf can farm 2x than pa
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
guys comment on this recent not so popular meta, good or bad?