General DiscussionI've bought wards.

thats why you need to support or just dont care anymore just farm for yourself

No wards when I'm Lina. Gonna get dat MKB.

I can manage that , just afraid that someone will throw the game.Lina isn't really a potential support, she can't be as effective as Kotl/ IO/ CM/ omniknight

Well, you're playing with a retard, what can you do? Only love and tolerate.
I'm full aware of this, so - no wards. xD

When I'm playing CM it's like Unlimited Ward Works, or something. Not everyone wants to go hard support though.

But I'm usually fine with buying and upgrading courier with characters like Lina or Sand King. If you take a little weight off your 5th position's shoulders it'll be much easier for him.

Yeah , being hard support is a great sacrifice to the team .
No wards? Nevermind , Pick veno , free wards
:)

Talk to your other support, tell that player to buy wards until you get your mek or force staff, then you'll buy wards and let him work for his item =D

Whenever i play carry, we barely have over 4 wards up the entire game. And when i'm supporting, my carries ask for wards even when i have constantly 2 wards (or atleast 1) up and we are seeing at least 3 enemy in map.

The problem is, some people think wards are supposed to be a global maphack rather than covering key points of the map.

You know what is funny ? i am pretty sure that if some supports that i play with stopped buying wards and bought aghs or something like that we could probably win the game

If you are going to put the ward in some useless place dont buy it, if your team keeps dying even when you have ward dont buy it

Some people actually think that you need 10 wards in the map all the time, plus there is a item called smoke that makes wards useless

^ i kinda agree with Dorkly, too many shit support players think their only job as support is to put wards in the river all game........

pushing high ground? need river wards.

enemy team is pushing into your jungle? need river wards.

People are so bad at warding and map awareness it's just better to save your gold sometimes.

gold is good

what is the point of picking cm if you aren't going to support...

wards are pretty much useless in lower brackets, people simply dont know how to take advantage of the sight provided, so its better zaving gold for dust and itemz

Yeah it's pretty common to blame supports for losing
get a load of this game http://dotabuff.com/matches/713701635
Medusa stacks with od. od is afk until 3 minutes into the game... they both go bot together when i ask them to come top since they are carry and 2 carries on offlane doesnt work, but they dont listen so fuck it

First blood awarded by medusa, game continues.. we manage to hold the game 3v5 for 25min (on a side note: very weird puck, no phase shift and boots but good player atleast)
Medusa and od come out and have zero farm. blame me because centaur has a 5 minute blink (he had it around 14 min if not mistaken) at minute 24 while all he had at the time was a boots, ring of health and RoA. Both of them totally useless.
The only kill od got was when they were fountain farming us and he steal my shackle ward combo

Blames support for no wards.
GG

oh oh i forgot. quote from medusa: "medusa is not carry"

I guess, same people which asked me to ward as Medusa could actually played her once or twice...

Meh. Even if I'm aware my team is not going to take advantage of my wards, I'll still buy them because I'll take advantage of them...

its annoying tbh. when you run around with 250ms cm with 3 branches and tangos while your other support is rocking upgraded stick and arcane boots, and is farming for forcestaff. like fuck you dude, spend fucking 150 gold on wards.

When I play mid, I bought all obs, 10 pair sentry and 10 pair dust, drop them from stash and beg my team really hard to use them, since I don't have any free inventory slot to hold them.

Tell them:

If you're gonna be support and say you've bought enough wards, then I'm gonna stop carrying, I've done enough damage already.
Proceed to throw game intentionally and watch your ally get mad.

Making someone rage > +25 mmr

wards and courier depend on mmr, on 4k its unlikely theres no wards or courier

@Sampson | DotaBuff.com
I have few words to say about river wards...

When someone says in chat: "We need wards", - I usually ask: "Where?". There is 80% chance that person who requested wards will ping near bottom rune and 20% chance - top rune. I say: "OMW", - and go ward damn river.

Point is... welll... it is not about supports, it is something more general. People think that there must be river wards all the time.

You should be able to ward by yourself without asking.

"what is the point of picking cm if you aren't going to support..."

this ?

@Sampson | DotaBuff.com
It does not hurt to ask your teammates where they think we need vision. It's that thing everybody talking about... eh... khm... teamplay! Right!

P.S. Not an impressive number, but want to share:

How do I deal? I alt tab because we just lost. Seriously, I've lost over 95% of games where I'm forced into the hard support role. In the last 48 hours I've been forced into the hard support role 6 times, lost 5 of those times(and would have been 6 if the other support didn't step up 25-30 minutes into the game >.>). And believe me when I say I ward more areas than the river...ancients, enemy ancients, high rock, base, secret shop, high ground, etc...buy smoke, dust, deward, gem, etc...these things are so rarely taken advantage of though :\ I've been bitched at before because we didn't have enough wards by a guy that just got ganked because the enemy walked from the lane 5 feet from him and killed him. Ugh...pubs in my mmr range are completely undependable.

@Dipshit
If you forced into hard support role as Slark, I can understand your despair. =)

heh, I very rarely touch Slark anymore xP

Hard support Bounty Hunter or Anti-Mage then? =)

River wards are only really useful for tagging runes for mid. Otherwise calling missing is usually plenty to tell a gank is coming. Also good gankers avoid those rune spots anyway, opting to go through the jungle, so you need to watch missing and lanes regardless. That's why I don't like just constantly warding the river with no purpose past the initial laning when you aren't really trying to race to runes. There are better places.

Now where good warding can come into play is when you've pushed say dire's T1, then you put a ward on radiant side of river by the ancients hill, one just in their jungle on top of the ramp between the two medium camps, and then for extra goodness at the ward hill top. You will have basically complete knowledge of what's going on in dire's jungle and no one can get to top without you seeing, thus you can push out other lanes, push top lane, init a team fight there, whatever. But again, that's 3 wards, only good if you make good use of them.

When I play carry I don't mind buying a set of wards, dust, smoke or even a gem. If that 900g gem means that we'll kill the Riki on a beyond-godlike streak, then is totally worth the investment even if it delays my next item.
With that being said, I NEVER hard support, even when i'm the only support in the team. Because if I hard support I don't have money for my other support items, therefore I'm food. If I'm food, I will contribute more to the enemy team with gold than my team with wards.

I...I don't want to talk about bounty...

I mean I'm usually not forced into it as a carry/semi-carry hero(though I can expect there to be either no vision or just river wards, no smoke, no dust, no gem, etc in these games), but the moment I pick something in as low a priority as a 3, I can expect to be transitioned into hard support. You know...heroes like clockwerk or qop, etc. You won't hear me complain about it when I'm on kotl or omni(you know...traditional hard supports), though I still expect to lose these games ;p

Well... Hard support Sniper actually works:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/689766901

When you have Invoker, Alch, Mirana and Naga then you can say you were "forced" into hard support role on sub-optimal hero. But in your case you just pick what is best for the team, it's called "GJ". =)

Problem is I'm not a good support player, I have issues functioning without items :\ I have not mastered the art of surviving at the 40 minute mark with 3 digit max health. So in fact, I'm a pretty bad support, all I have is a better utility than most :\

You're not really supposed to survive as a support that far in with no hp. You just want to survive long enough to get your shit off, ie lich ult, nuke, cm freeze someone, lion hex, earth spike, ult. Who cares if you die if all your shit's on cd?

I recently play hard support.
As an ex-offlane player, i want to enjoy raping their solo offlane and some noob mid who tried to gank where my carries at.
sadly though, matches like these:

http://dotabuff.com/matches/714163370
TA who use sandboxie to feed intentionally with NP on my team.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/714054378
Won my lane, and gyro went first item aghanim and sange and yasha

http://dotabuff.com/matches/713880798
Won lane so hard, but PL went midas and manta first item and then abandon

Can't be controlled

Question: How to report someone who use 2 account and feed his main account to farm MMR?

5th support is my go-to role when I'm playing solo.
I rarely see players placing good wards, even though most of my games contain 5-6k players.

If you're really a true hard support , you wouldn't care about your items and just buy what supports buy Mek/pipe/dust etc.So how do you get gold? From hero kills( assist) , destroying towers and the gold per second. Stick with your carries all the time to ensure that get enough farm .Omniknight can be said to be one of the best supports you could have leech sticking with you , he's tanky , so he won't be worried about getting killed by others.

I always thought to myself when I see these kind of players :" Will getting your "items"lead us to victory?" , definitely not , there don't have the potential and it's risky too. Being thin is excusable when you've contributed to the team, it's even better when you've no deaths.

"it's even better when you've no deaths."
Easier to make this happen when you have more than tranqs and a soul ring xD even if it's only a mek.

@Soultrap,

"It does not hurt to ask your teammates where they think we need vision [color=red]a slow/disable[/color]. It's that thing everybody talking about... eh... khm... teamplay! Right!"

@WLB.Melody.Dotabuff
Shut up and enjoy your never-ending manapool. =)

Btw, if we talk about builds.
@Yfay
Third point in frostbite is useless, unless you plan to get fourth soon.

lol missclick maybe

I would hope so, however that is her most broken skill.

I just play support with Abaddon or Lion
But i still trust on abaddon, since this new patch ulti really interesting

http://dotabuff.com/matches/714691104
This game is good for me since Mirana doesn't feed too much, also Puck have played good
Deward rune ward and keep push with Sentry or Dust Haha