As a Medusa pro... Ok, well, as a 3k MMR player who reeeeally likes Medusa, I say, DR indeed connects people better then any Nokia. Bad thing, is that this usually could be applied to enemy too.
Main question is how your team being at the moment you've got your first item. In even game, you can stomp enemy with just PB, Linken's and Skadi. No risks taken. In slightly uneven game you can stomp enemy with PB, Linkens, Skadi and Butterfly. Again - no risk taken. With uneven game and hard carries on enemy team, you still can stomp then by adding one Rapier to said build. Littlle risk taken - they can't kill you anyway.
So I won't go for a DR rush in any game where I have an advantage for some reason. In such games you only need two big items for a win. And you're most likely going to have them at 25 minutes mark.
And Manta is a trash.
"you dont even need to have a lot last hits in laning phase"
thats giving yourself excuses. you should always strive to improve. that end you're gonna get punished hard eventually with divine because one fight lost, regardless of how many won will cost you the game.
"One divine seems to beat mantle+eos+butterfly combined."
i challenge you to a duel my friend. i really do
" So far i have won all 8 of my games " < which means , you still get people, that don't get DOTA at all. So don't get aroused , you will lose soon enough.
Also since Manta is trash? Please explain?
To devaslaytion
PT>Linkens>Manta>Satanic>Butter and DR
@Girl with beautiful face
Hm, how should I say this. Manta is the worst Medusa-type item. This means, that Manta is still good on Medusa, but there are much better options.
Manta illusions (which is one of the main reasons to consider Manta over other big items) have VERY bad synergy with Medusa. Here's why:
1. Yep, you get quite alot of AoE damaga with clones. But this is just an addition to your AoE damage, so difference is so little you're probably not even going to notice it.
2. Yep, Medusa is a tanky stat hero, so she will eventually get items that are great for illusions. But she's tanky because of her Mana Shield, which do not work on Illusions. So when every other hero's illusions get 400% damage, Medusa's get 800%. I saw 6th slotted Medusa's illusions literaly melt in split second of a teamfight, and I saw it more than once.
3. Illusions are mostly used for AoE damage purposes, while this is the worst possible way to use them. While Medusa's Split Shot damage penalty is offsetted by flat damage items thus deals like 90+% of her damage, illusions' penalty works on full power, reducing their alredy pitiful damage even further.
4. Medusa is the best DR holder in the game. Going DR makes pair of solo-targeted illusions add 5~10% bonus damage at best.
MS is nice, but I usually fine with PB which is much better than PT for Medusa in every possible case, except, maybe, mentioned DR rush. Manta is also little bit easier to farm up, but IMO not to an extend, where it could be crucial. Debuff-removal is neat, but very situational.
I would take Skadi over Manta in every possible Medusa game, and cost difference there is laughable. And while Manta at 22~25 minutes mark will make you strong, Skadi will make you immortal.
agree skadi > manta on medusa, she benefit from every stat (best is both)
Well for medusa i usually don't think too much.
I usually just copy the legend itself, ZSMJ. This guy is around 6k MMR so i guess it works at higher level too.
http://dotabuff.com/players/113705693/matches?date=&faction=&hero=medusa&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
or for lesser known player, this guy also has medusa as his most played hero and success with it too.
http://dotabuff.com/players/91741256/matches?date=&faction=&hero=medusa&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
This one played medusa 300 times, 4+ KDA, 60+ winrate
http://dotabuff.com/players/65463861/matches?date=&faction=&hero=medusa&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
I think manta gives you more dmg, skadi obviously makes you more tanky.
I think you guys are undervaluing the illusions saying well we already have split shot so it makes no difference. Actually the split shot enhances illusions so they're nearly twice as good as having illusions on say drow or mirana or sniper. It's like saying well luna's glaives already bounce a ton so you won't notice illusions bouncing glaives that much.
I don't know which is better, just saying manta here is getting kind of a raw deal in this thread.
Skadi is better, trust me. And in terms of damage, I won't say Manta is ahead. On paper - yes, but in an actual fight Skadi will allow you to land more hits you could do with Manta, and will also make you take less.
And I know (not think) that people are terrible overrating Manta illusions on Medusa. They ARE weak. Drow illusions are even more garbage, that's the reason you get this idea. It could be the opposite, if Drow's ulti worked on illusions but it don't. In Luna case it isn't so terrible, because Luna can get multiple bounces on same target, creating peaks in dps output. This isn't the same for Medusa.
Srsly, I don't say it just because I want to. I went Manta with Medusa few times. I won some of these games. But boost in power when you get Manta and when you get Skadi is nowhere close to be comparable.
But you all forgot, that you can use mirror images to evade stuns, enables you to play a bit riskier.
But also, i haven't played dusa in dota 2, although used to play her non-stop back on dlg, with zsmj build, so keep in mind, i don't know a lot about her.
I put evading in the same category as "debuff-removal". Also, this job is partialy done by Linken's. And level of riskiness Skadi enables you to play could never be achieved with Manta. I remember a game where I went in 1vs3 fight under enemy's t2 and they weren't be able to do anything. I only had PB, Linken's and freshly farmed Skadi. You can't do this with Manta.
I can actually see Manta as a more aggresive alternative to Linken's, but I love Linken's utility too much.
Indeed, a divine rapier unites the team!
When we see the divine, our team unites to kill that retard that bought it
instan-turn-around-in-an-item
I think manta is great on medusa but manta should never be used as soon as you get in the fight you should use it after they have run out of aoe damage that way the illusions wont die right away and will deal a considerable amount of damage.
Usually i will go pb>linkens(situational)/skadi>(if i went skadi now i get a bkb)/manta>butterfly/rapier
Medusa is the hardest carry in the game but that doesnt mean that you shouldnt fight early,
early/mid game medusa ult can destroy teamfights and give your team the advantage just dont die and dont get greedy you are in those teamfights to get assists gold you are not ready to manfight them.
One big mistake i see a lot of ppl do they try to initiate with ult, NEVER do that. use your ult when the fight already started.
Usually when someone gets divine the team does everything they can to let them die so they can take it for themselves.
@blablablawizard Lol dude first i am not saying my last hits are bad. I have played dota 1 for 6 years and dota 2 for 2 yrs. Been playing carries 75% of my game. What i am saying is that, even if you have a bad early game with little last hits due to either pressure from enemy or smoke ganks, you can comeback v fast with just a divine. While if u try to farm up all the items ppl normally get for medusa, that lost game would have ended before u could do anything.
@sirratalot in a 1v1 medusa vs medusa obviously you will win, but i am talking about a 5v5 where you have your teammates support, and thats where dealing the divine dmg is more effective as if you play carefully(being the last to enter and always making sure stone gaze is rdy before each clash), you are going to deal a lot of dmg in a short period of time, the enemy is not going to stand there and let you attack them numerous amt of time with your fast att speed. So each attack dmg counts. And then again, not all games you get to farm up 3 big cores, but one divine is definately possible.
@girlwithbeautifulface its people like you who makes me laugh:) the ones who get jealous and cant resist ppl who wins with divine and have to conclude "oh enemy must be noobs". If you see how i play when i have a divine rapier you will realise there is not much way for enemy to get near. My teammates will be at the front line all the time. And with a divine, you are going to see supports getting forcestaffs, mek, wards, smokes. As i have mentioned, divine unites team. I am not going to go with a divine and man fight 1v3 etc. When i have a divine, i am always with my team. We stick all the way. When you guys assume that "oh enemy will aim you and you will drop the divine". Yes its true, but think again. Is dota a 1v5 game? Obviously its not. If you play accurately, you shdnt drop the divine. There are games where i drop it too. But by the time i drop it, raxes are all gone alr. We will easily push and end it.
To all those who flame me just because of an item called mantle. Lol just lol. The focus of this discussion isnt mantle at all. I dont know why people just have to pick on little things, just because they cant stand the idea of someone winning with divine? I dont rly care if mantle is a shit item or not, because i only play medusa 5 times, and thats the five time i go divine, i nvr build mantle before. the reason i mentioned it is because its one of the agil items that come to my mind. For the majority of my games i play meepo.
@heartsgettogether I buy divine as a strat, not like what you usually see "ppl owning buy divine". And dont forget dota is a 5v5 game. I execute divine plays with proper accuracy. With your 4 teammates helping out, you shdnt lose your divine. And dont forget medusa have stome gaze. Try getting her you will die first with 50% extra phy dmg. And if you turn arnd thats where her divine plus her teammates will rape u in the duration of stome gaze. Needless to say, i only engage in team clash when stone gaze is ready. And thats how i win.
Why dont you all just try one game with my item build and see how it goes? If you never try before you will never know it works. Since you guys talk like pros with all the flaming of me being noob, i believe you guys can execute it better right? For 6 yrs of dota i have the same mentality as you guys. But recently after building and rushimg divine with the right lineup(meaning enemy dont have too much stunner or aoe, teammates have supports and not all carries), i am starting to see it as a very powerful strategy. People are always afraid to run a divine just because of the fear of losing. You will lose some games, but majority you are going to win with divine. Its not a 100% win strat, but at least 80% i can say if done well. If you havent tried it yourself, pls stop theorising it sucks. You can give your opinion why it suck, and i appreciate those who does. But keyboard warriors, just get far away ok? U can try hard, all dota 1 players are used to flaming.
And once again Thanks for those who have gave me their opinions above:)
Yeap u definately didnt:)
Anyway i just want to direct things back to the original topic. Main thing i wanted to say was divine rly rly rly unites the team because everyone knows divine is not to be messed arnd with. It makes everyone wants to perfect every move, working together as one. And when we win, that win is satisfying. It definately makes a game more fun if you are looking for fun. Yes you will lose. But when you win, the feeling of the win together as a team with 4 other strangers beat any ordinary winning game. Precisely because all arguments stop, people start playing as a team. I took the gamble to rush divine on the first time i ever played weaver(last time i played was probably 3-4yrs back), and i see myself playing well because i know divine is not a item to mess around with. So actually it not only unites team, it can also train your map awareness, your judgement in team fights etc, precisely because you are forced to. And you will be amazed how much better you actually are.
Just my take haha. So yeah pls stay on topic! Can also discuss abt how feasible this hero is in solo ap games nowadays. And the item builds you guys use to make it feasible. No more arguments alr pls:) or else i will delete this thread.
Phase->(basi and wand if needed)Drums->Manta(for split push)/Maelstron or even Mjollnir(for even faster farm)->Skadi->Butterfly->Rapier. A situational BKB can be added. This is what I usually go for and things just turn out great :)
I have bought 14 divines, 13 on Lycan and 1 on TB. But always once the game is won or I know that I won't just die and lose it. Often I let the enemies know "Got divine!".
^It's you again !! :)) I believe I explained my build quite well. Those 2 items are situational and I also explained when to get them.
Ideal build would like this: http://dotabuff.com/matches/667888990
Yep it's me. I just don't think Medusa needs any additional boost in farming aside from one she gets via her core items. And Manta illusions are TTTEEERRRRIBBBLEEE. Utility is not, but illusions are.
I do agree about the build, though. Medusa usually doesn't need 6th slot, but I would place Scythe of Wise there, if you ask me.
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
Just ended my fifth game(in my main account) as medusa with a double divine rush(threads>drums>double divine). So far i have won all 8 of my games(5 medusa, 2weaver, 1sniper)where i go for double divine rush. But the nice thing is that i realise before getting divine, everyone was disorganised, there were the typical flaming etc. but once i got a divine, everyone starting playing as a team:)
And just a side note, any pro out there can give me some opinion on medusa? I feel that the current meta does not allow this hero to farm up her cores like in the past. It seems to be a shit hero, unless u rush divine since its the most cost efficient item.
Although its a v risky gameplay, but once i build a divine, the first team clash is almost always a teamwipe, then we will proceed to p mid as far as we can. When enemy respawn we take rosh. Repeat and push mid all the way to end since with divine, towers go down fast, possible to straight mid end. And i play solo all the time, so i dont have a coordinated team.
Just my take. Thanks a lot! I am starting to see divine rush as the best core build for medusa, but need more games to confirm. With a divine rush, you dont even need to have a lot last hits in laning phase. One divine seems to beat mantle+eos+butterfly combined.