General DiscussionIs terrorblade too strong? (part 2)

This thread fits better to dev.dota2.com

^ What do you mean? Like it doesn't belong here? I like this site though :D!

I've played him several times on Dota 1 and I remember he is one of the most changed hero of the game
The problem with terrorblade is his starting str and str gain are too low so he can get nuked down before he can sunder someone.
His Illusions synergizes well with his Agi gain and Metamorphosis. (highest agi gain before PL got buffed)

For me they should just exchange his agi gain and ridiculous armor for Starting Str and str gain.

^
yea but his strength is low like that because he does a metric fuck ton of damage, and can split/push and flash farm like cancer lancer.

TB has been notoriously difficult to balance.

we know hes shit, why do u make an other thread about it?

i think he is. Especially on solo queue who doesn't gank him early on
once he got manta style, pretty much you lost towers and rax

TB needs farm. Also he needs babysit. He's just as OP as luna or some late game carry. But he actually can't outfarm a dominator first luna when he goes midas so it's situational. Before Spectre, POTM, PL, he was the TRUE carry, but tended to feed alot, that's it. Kinda like 5.8xx meta hero vs. 6.80 meta? what u think?

midas on illusion carry -not spectre/ck- or how to say, i buy a gold item to farm less gold

i'm pretty sure he need less farm than luna

cant you just put him with a healing lineup and then just push push push when metamorphosis is up? like if he has an abba+dazzle you won't be able to focus him down.

watch Iceiceice play him if you want to know what to do. He usually goes for a manta first, and if the game is going well he goes radiance.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/497067084

3-0 at 10 minutes SnY + Skadi at 25-ish minutes.

Couldn't carry the game. Lacking CC you need a team who can at least hold a front while you dish out damage, which doesn't happen often enough.

(some dude random + repick into legion at creep time losing a whole lot of gold, jungled a treads in 15 minutes, won one duel the whole game)

^ on paper your lineup is better. lc and cm just sucked.

can ppl stop picking phoenix and tb in my games ty

If he gets an early radiance there is nothing you can do

except laugh

ye hes too strong, lvl 2 he crush any hero, and late he's too strong also

who the fuck build sange and yasha and skadi on him?
that guy literally doesn't know how to play that hero

do you know how bad skadi and sange and yasha is?
only few heroes are viable to buy that item
http://dotabuff.com/matches/496228365
this match, terrorblade's team carried him
he got skadi + sange and yasha wrekt while they have 20 kill advantage

if he got early radiance nothing you can do about it
http://dotabuff.com/matches/496697146
14 mins radiance
you got early radiance? better wait for the punishment

all he need is just manta style and freaking heart

Tried him out yesterday for the first time, my first impressions on him are, with the right babysit at early game, you can do shit and build him into a snowball monster, because his Q and E combined are powerfull, with bad support you are just food and no amount of try harding will grant you victory.

First try > http://dotabuff.com/matches/497115978

Second ( here i was having some strange connection problems, altough -ping displayed no packet loss my router was somehow showing that some packages were being lost, anyways tried despite of the problem so no big deal ) > http://dotabuff.com/matches/497177465

Like i said, i'm trying the hero out ( nothing but some BOT matches with him under my belt so far , these were the first two pub matches )

TB = Cancer Lancer 2.0 basically.

^^
pls dont talk you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

To clear your bullshit:
The strong aspect of this hero is the fact that his 'w'(illusion) and 'e'(metamorph) are working great. Since he gains damage in form of basedamage which illusions do benefit from. Building s&y on tb is like building s&y on luna or pl. I have no idea why that item is recommended, tb is clearly a manta user. Tb is NOT a snowball hero, he is an afk farming carry/pusher much like pl, am, fv, spec etc. The issue with tb is that he is completely useless early game and does not even scale that well late. The only thing he is decent at is pushing, hes basicly a crappy version of PL or Lycan.

There is no reason whatsoever to pick this hero, if you want a hardcarry you would go for medusa, spec, am, pl etc. if you want a decent pusher you would go for furion,pl, lycan etc.

As far as i can tell, tb is stronger on the lower end of the skillbracket, since people tend to play alot more passive or completely reckless diving towers and feed, also never react with tps. Also lower skilled players tend not to realize that silence / stun / nukedmg is the deathsentence for tb.

@Yfay:
Pls think for once with your tiny brain. Skadi is a decent item on TB, since he is one of the very few heroes who uses illusions. Skadi in combinition with manta or any type of illusionhero is pretty darn legit. You just prove that you're nothing but a lowskilled trashplayer, so im gonna tell you aswell, pls dont talk.

also
'i'm pretty sure he need less farm than luna'

You cant be fucking serious. Once luna hits lvl 6 she can rotate to other lanes when they are being pushed, if tb would do the same he would feed like shit. Luna has a very nice early & mid game thats why so many people pick her. You don't see that many lategame heroes in the proscene because its very risky to run them, since you're forced to play 4v5.

so with your logic PL should go skadi as well because he use illusion more than TB right? what is this?

^
Skadi is a darn legit item on PL. Its not recommended in the early stage of the game since diffusual etc. does give you 'more for your gold'. I think you're a kid, since you dont seem to think before you post.

Why would skadi be a horrible item on pl in the lategame for example? Exacly you cant tell me since you know that its very decent once you think about it for once.

'perfect 6 slotted pl (my opinion)' -> difblade, BoT, HoT, BF,Skadi, Manta

He's a what blunt? Are you serious? He's not a pusher or farmer, once you hit six you can go around and gank people thats his main role , its like saying CK is an afk farmer and pusher because he has ilusions.. lol? Imo TB is a ganker plain and simple, you pop your E, you pop ilusions, Q the target and profit.... and btw, whats the point in saying that silences/stuns are his bane? Every hero suffers from this, if you stun / silence / hex anyone he's pretty much useless and dead.. nukes are more or less ok but if you can use your ulti timely then by by to the guy that did it because depending on the situation he'll be spent and you get a boner on him... ( except the freking bkb users ) :/

PL does not need a Skadi exclusively, its perhaps usefull in the long run but the diffusal works better in mid game / troughout the game actually.. i'd build a Radiance preferably actually for the bonus damage ( even the skadi giving your and your ilusions better stats but once you get a Manta and a HT you are pretty much setup to push and gank people if need be. )

^
So you're telling me TB is a ganker? Jesus fucking christ, your mmr must be fucking shit.

You cant silence/stun slark.
Stun on cent / brisleback etc. is not that effective to begin with.
Silence on WK/Pa etc. is plain useless.

Who told you PL needs exclusively a skadi? Are you even fucking reading you imbecile?

Pls dont write anything, you clearly are a trashbracket player who has no idea what hes talking about and start making shit up because he feels offended and tries to sound smart. Go back to school kid, i think its time for ya.

Are you fucking stupid? Read your own post you fucktard , here made it simple for you

"tb is clearly a manta user. Tb is NOT a snowball hero, he is an afk farming carry/pusher much like pl, am, fv, spec etc. The issue with tb is that he is completely useless early game and does not even scale that well late. The only thing he is decent at is pushing, hes basicly a crappy version of PL or Lycan. "

So you fucking Einstein on a brain wheelchair, care to explain why TB is a crappier version of PL or Lycan? What he can spawn ilusions.. right.. uh NO YOU FUCKING IDIOT he's not a pusher you said it yourself he's a shittier pusher then PL and Lycan... in fact you genious he's alot more useless at pushing BUT and here's a tip, if you start farming other players instead of your "look at me i'm a retard afk jungle / midas / wtf you are on farmer " you will snowball and it will be good to you in the long run ( translates into good for you, crap for the other team )

In fact the sooner you start getting kills the better you control your lane and the lvl gap in between you and the one's oposing you ( spells advantage )

Zenoth said it right, you need someone to hold the front, you come from behind ( something you are probably well aquainted with while being on the receiving end ) and dish out the damage... for that you need either to farm ( jungle is shit / midas is shit ) , or to gank, both preferably, translates into having someone babysitting you ( preferably someone with a stun ) and profit..

"Who told you PL needs exclusively a skadi? Are you even fucking reading you imbecile?" - Blunt @ retardic

Then this shit " 'perfect 6 slotted pl (my opinion)' -> difblade, BoT, HoT, BF,Skadi, Manta"... BF ? What are you? 6 and disguised as a 15 yo idiot with brain lag disfunction? Have you read and understood what PL relies on to create his ilusions? why the hell should i build a BF ? Why the fuck BoT when threads are enough, you can change later if you like but its still a fucking retarded statement from you...

"You cant silence/stun slark" > blunt @ im too fucking dense to think for myself

Yes you can stun slark dipshit, i'll leave it to you to figure out how.. but as i'm not half the douche you are ( except when provoked ) here's a tip, both examples start with L , and theres more in the small list of heroes that Valve put at our disposal .. use your tiny brain for once.

" Stun on cent / brisleback etc. is not that effective to begin with." / "Silence on WK/Pa etc. is plain useless." > either you are fucking around or you are playing some 1v1 version of Dota that the rest of us aren't playing ...

And more retardness and lack of reading and comprehension skills....

"Why would skadi be a horrible item on pl in the lategame for example? Exacly you cant tell me since you know that its very decent once you think about it for once." - blunt @ the happy australopithecus idiotus..

i said this

"PL does not need a Skadi exclusively" , this , " even the skadi giving your and your ilusions better stats but once you get a Manta and a HT you are pretty much setup to push and gank people if need be." and this "its perhaps usefull in the long run but the diffusal works better in mid game"

Translating into, I didn't said it was useless , i said there were other better less farm dependant and reliable builds you could go for, i never , ever said it was useless.

For a guy that claims to have a high MMR you sure compensate by having a very low IQ.. and guess what retard, its showing.

^
i just looked up your profile. I was not dissapointed, scrubtier idiot trying to sound smart, i didnt bother reading your wall there since i know its only trash. Pls go play with your bots.

[IMG]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k30/TristanZR105/austin-powers-4-more-about-dr-evil.jpg[/IMG]

Also before i forget:
[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2770568/you-mad-o.gif[/IMG]

348 CS 1:26:00

LoL

i didnt read anything but i know for a fact that black lion is wrong, no matter what

^
look out, he has almost 350 cs in 1,5 hour match, he dendi.

i love low tier trash who just don't realize how shitty they truly are. I fucking love it.

So nova if im wrong present us with some hard evidence... be smarter then the blunt retard, he's kinda boring . ( and he plays a shit Phoenix... oh--- my--- gawd .. dagon riki.. are you serious?! 0_o ... holy crap )

( and blunt even bots are more challenging then you, you know at least they are straight forward and not pretending they are brilliant shit like you.. in case you haven't got it, the shit part is what applies to you because of the simple fact that you can't have a regular discussion with anyone in these forums without sounding like a 13 yo little bitch complaining that someone took away her barbie. )

Terorblade = lose

http://dotabuff.com/matches/497916479
http://dotabuff.com/matches/497878907
http://dotabuff.com/matches/497774377 (lucky, he on the same team with me)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/497593843

I stopped replying when he looks like Marco from speed gaming.
Can't believe someone is actually takes him seriously
i would expect next reply would be void stacking desolator + MoM

^
lvl 2 diff. blade does stack with skadi. Bitch pls, dunno if its a glitch or intended, but thats something i've found out while randomly buying diffblade and skadi since i won a game hard and thought i would go for a trollbuild.

i cant present evidences cuz i didnt read whats its all about

^
Next level

S&Y & skadi is a legit alternative build vs. manta. I did it in a few bot games. You just need damage like deadalus later. Manta doesn't give you that tankiness & stats like +41 stats and bonus hp/mana.

IMO TB is a good low/mid pub-tier hero prefect for smurfing. Before naga radiance illusion spam and cancer PL or spectre radiance build. there was TB. Though he's not good position 1 or 2 hero. He's a good bait or ganker (position 3) hero. Though he probably needs safe lane farm or dual lane instead of the classic offlane position 3 hero.

lvl 2 diff. blade does stack with skadi. Bitch pls, dunno if its a glitch or intended, but thats something i've found out while randomly buying diffblade and skadi since i won a game hard and thought i would go for a trollbuild.

Then again you could just assume you troll 99% of your games shitty as your stats are .. for a highly skilled player like yourself that is. When are you then presenting us with your main account and your shinny example of how things should be done?

@Black Lion who u talking to? Your 5 month smurf account talks pretty loud. 48% at 600 games is pretty shitty IMO. Come 1000 or 2000 games he'll be 45 and 42% respectively.

SnY is a very good transition item because of the extra hp it gives you early. You can then disassemble it into Manta and Halberd, which is a placeholder until you need to complete your butterfly. It literally takes up no extra slot until you have completed both Manta and Butterfly which are most definitely core items on TB.

Skadi is arguably one of the best items for illusion heroes. I just tested and it doesn't stack with Diffusal Blade both level 1 and 2, with the one being in your inventory longer taking precedence. However, notably with PL (and in fact any melee illusion hero), illusions will mana burn regardless, while the main hero slows the enemy. Combined with the raw hp and stats it does so much more for illusion heroes than just about any other item. It gives the second most HP of all items in the game, while costing only 175 gold more than a heart. Throw in the 3.5 armour and Skadi actually gives more EHP than Heart in almost any circumstance. If you're not a STR hero and don't need the HP regen particularly, Skadi is easily the best alternative.

The build Blunt posted for PL is literally the best possible build on paper late game in terms of damage with a balance of survivability. The only alternative is multiple butterflies. Obviously, Skadi is an item you get only to fill your last slot after BoTs, and I'm quite sure he was pointing that out as well.

Terrorblade traditionally has always been one of the hardest carries, somewhere in the spectre-void-medusa tier. However, he requires a team with decent crowd control to play well late, unlike something like void or spec which are basically guaranteed to land some kills as long as their farm exceeds a certain point. However, all of them farm slower than a TB with decent micro and some map control.

@Black Lion
Saying TB is a ganker is like saying Void is a ganker. Sure, it can gank, and sometimes successfully, but that's defeating the main purpose of picking that hero. If you want a ganker there are much better picks. SA is a prime example of a safe lane hero that can gank very early and snowball instead of depending on killing creeps for his core items. TB, on the other hand, at lvl 11 with most items you can get at that point will die to a full combo from Lina alone.

Since Dota 1 TB was always regarded as the premier carry that can guarantee a win as long as he manages to outfarm the opponent carry. The multiple changes to his skills (soul steal, zeal) has given him at the very least a slow which he won't get to even use in most team fights since he shouldn't be in the thick of it, but at the core TB is still a carry. A 220% damage steroid with extra 80 base damage, one of the highest attack range of all ranged carries, second best BAT and hence scaling with aspd items and second best Agi gain in the game. How is this skillset one of a ganker?

@Purge welcum... for a guy that at 2700 games barely broke the 50% barrier and comes here talking shit about Purge you seem to shit louder, in fact there is a blatant distinction in between me and braindead idiots like you and blunty there , wich is, i dont claim to be , the best, a pro or the ultimate super sayan of Dotobuff, unlike you attention whores that either spam the forums with hate threads , like your pitifull attempt to raise hate at Purge or Blunty's replys and threads about how all others are shit and he's the hit...

In fact if that fucking idiot hadn't replied like barbie on her period and actually for once gave some insight in why does he think the way he think ( now i know better.. he's just a retard ) i would have let it slide and not given a fuck, since he wants to play who has the biggest dick i'll just have my fun with him pointing out what a pitifull loser he also is. :)

And to you my friend i'll just leave it by saying you won the internet the day you made a post about a guy that is doing well in this game, came into the pro scene and guess what he doesn't give a rat ass about your hater threads because.. well.. lemme break the news for you.. you good Sir are a nobody in ocean of nobodys in this playerbase.

/ now back to sipping tea.

Guys no need to fight, no way this hero is better than typical carry heroes, if you want to rat/split push naga pl lycan > terrorblade.

If you want to fight there is a LOT of heroes that can fight WAY earlier than him, and better.

If you want to afk farm just pick am spectre void etc.

I mean WHO THE FUCK thinks that this hero rats better than naga or pl ? seriously ?

"Oh lets gank someone with only autoatacks and a slow that has a MELEE range " Even a zeus can solo kill terrorblade.

"Imo TB is a ganker plain and simple, you pop your E, you pop ilusions, Q the target and profit." Yes really good ganker, you just need to walk to melee range to slow your target, he he can tp out or even better he can probably man fight you.

Just make his ulti have more range and no cast animation or some shit.

Edit: BTW you all have serious rage problems.

Sorry Black lion, you are pretty bad @ 48%. I was 52% all the way up until TI2 with 1000 games. Blunt is known troll who claims 5k MMR. Playing mostly support janitor for the 5k dotabuff fiends. He was proven wrong about skadi/diffusal already I don't know what scratched ur butt so hard.

And why you gotta be so hard on my hate towards Purge? lol. I don't really hate him I just dislike him. He comes off as an ignorant white version of a black punk. Just cuz he can ramble on like he's still in a 3rd rate college doesn't mean jack.

Some of his statement just comes off really bad. He can't afford no humility or demand any respect with his arrogant smack talk. At least with EG.Demon we know he's joking at times.

It's not like anybody is jealous of his success. He can win versus koreans anytime, remember these guys have like 0-3 months into Dota, and I'm pretty sure none of them come from pro-LoL or HON scene or dota 1/warcraft 3 scene. But he's gotta be less two faced. Claiming to be top 30th team in the world to 'the tournament's gonna be a breeze'. Calling Demon a 'hired' ringer, then doing the same. Dude makes people like [root]destiny look like real honest gamers.

I mean if he got balls come play IXDL or MLG in America. Heck even play vs. Brazillians and peruvians. South American teams will give him more bang for his buck in dota knowledge, even if 99% of the players suck.

http://dotabuff.com/players/112377459

> These are some of the "noob" kroeans.

They may not have the teamwork and game sense nor drafts of competent western teams yet, but mechanically they are on par with most pubstars. Don't be too quick to judge.

@Zenoth:
Guess they fixed the dif. lv 2 & skadi combo then. It was a rather long time ago i acually did it, since i rearely play pl etc.

Also you are correct, still i dont think that tb is a good carry, since his early game is shittier than the other hardcarries, also i do think that he doesnt scale as well as spec, dusa, pl etc.

I still dont think that S&Y is good though, since halberd is very situational and a fast manta can help tb push alot due to his metamorph. ability.

Not that its a single indicator, but this heroes winrate in pubs is steadily rising over the 50% mark. Doesn't look like flattening out just yet.

I think if you put TB in a defensive trilane and he gets reasonable early farm, he is near to bloody unstoppable from mid game. 40 second CD on the ulti at lvl 3 is just disgusting and I think that will be nerfed at some point.

Just name one Korean player not based in America, that played dota 1 during MYM days? or HON professionally? Or LoL pre-2010?

I'm not saying they are bad, just watch TI1, the Chinese team doesn't even know how to counter push strat NAVI. Pretty sure most of them using LoL terms and looking for the foritfy bars. Give korean 2-3 years and pretty sure they will dominate Asian scene. Given their country respects starcraft as a SPORT.

when is is terrorblade to strong part 3?

Oh Zenoth,

@Black Lion
Saying TB is a ganker is like saying Void is a ganker. Sure, it can gank, and sometimes successfully, but that's defeating the main purpose of picking that hero. If you want a ganker there are much better picks. SA is a prime example of a safe lane hero that can gank very early and snowball instead of depending on killing creeps for his core items. TB, on the other hand, at lvl 11 with most items you can get at that point will die to a full combo from Lina alone.

Since Dota 1 TB was always regarded as the premier carry that can guarantee a win as long as he manages to outfarm the opponent carry. The multiple changes to his skills (soul steal, zeal) has given him at the very least a slow which he won't get to even use in most team fights since he shouldn't be in the thick of it, but at the core TB is still a carry. A 220% damage steroid with extra 80 base damage, one of the highest attack range of all ranged carries, second best BAT and hence scaling with aspd items and second best Agi gain in the game. How is this skillset one of a ganker?

Like i said, i'm not that confortable with the hero at this point, 2 games is nothing to gauge i admit, still the skillset at start looks good to go on and gank people and later on translate into a carry, like you said outfarming your opponent is key and i like the ideia of in the early game to go on and just score as many kills on the other guy farming as possible, a point or two in Metamorphosis and 1 in Reflection at start looks pretty good to make the jump on people.

I admit off course that there are better picks, but taking your point on Lina, for a situation where you are faced against magic damage wouldn't for instance a BKB make sense in the short term? Because i get the impression people make the item build static and dont deviate from it one inch so i guess, and this is again just and educated guess that throwing in some magic imunity could make him a bit more reliable, im thinking something along the lines of Shadow Fiend ( not that im comparing just throwing some guidlines ) .

Then again if you have suggestions im more then glad to read them.

@Purge Welcum, i dont dislike people personally ( at least not here because i dont know you at all ) but i do dislike people with a superiority complex, while you claiming that im bad with a handfull of games and looking at you with the ammount you have and coupled with your dislike for Purge like you say then i get a bit anoyed, especially because i dont like people like blunt due to one simple thing, he could be a freaking awesome player, the problem is.. he's not, and coupled with that hes a douche to almost everyone and that shit i just dont buy and you came after him so we can say that you sprung in when the bat was still swinging, call it a personality problem, call me a rebel without a cause but the plain simple fact is that i sort of challenged his opinion about one hero that i actually like and play more or less decently and he came across like a raging baboon.

So that said, and on a more "friendly" note, facts cant be argued and Purge is playing the game on a pro level, like it or not this could be his entry point to bigger stuff or perhaps not we dont know.

You dont like his coments, for example i think Merlini is a tad arrogant after watching his videos and dislike the way he dismisses his oponents, not saying that Purge doesn't do that now and then but you notice that the guy is having fun while Merlini comes across like he's the man all else is crap, wich imo makes him look like an asshole, maybe i'm wrong but its the way i see it, however i dont start discussions about how i wish Merlini to fail because thats just kindergarten stuff.

Why is sange and yasha bad on terrorblade? Move speed for reflection?, check. Strength to solve up problem?, check. Agility?, check. Maim for easy chasing?, check. Illusions gaining all those bonuses?, check.

Manta is good too, but you can't really have both s&y and manta because move speed bonus does not stack. IMO get sange and yasha, way cheaper.

THanks black lion for understanding! :)