I think the players in captain's are the same it's just you are in control of the teams or usually someone stacked is. It only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch in AP and pick a second mid or other retarded hero and screw up your lanes. In captain's this almost never happens as his pick is dictated for him. I don't think it's players being worse or more rude or better at communicating it's just better picks overall cus one person can pick a couple supports and setup strong lanes. At this skill level picks are like the most important factor imo because many players pick heroes for fun and not what gives them a good shot to win.
@ There is no try
So your experience is different than mine. It looks from your profile (Sorry I web stalked your stats :O) you come out about even on your All picks. I viewed a handful and appears you get a balanced team from the two pages I looked at. You seem to have someone that could be designated wards/courier (general support) in most cases of the losses I saw.
At your MMR Level (May I ask what it is?) What happens for you in all pick going solo? Is there a frantic discussion of what to pick, whos going to go support/carry/semi item purchase plans etc? Or is that still non-existent at your level?
in the ~4k MM range it is the same people will pick whatever hero they want and you usually end up with one support
1.) I'd say set Language preference to english. It does help to some degree but not that much because you'll still get non-english players anyway.
2.) Almost everyone wants to be that cool guy who kills everything but not me. I always say I'll play support @ the beginning of the game. I think that puts my teammates at ease. And that maybe making them play a bit better.
3.) Well you said you're in 2.2k-3k MMR tier. Which is usually known to make bad decisions. so yeah, you're prone to that. It still happens @ 4.5k-5k MMR but not as much as you seem to imply.
4.) Welcome to the internet.
I queue on CM+AP. I rarely get CM tho. My language preference is English but it doesn't really help much since there are too many countries playing in SEA. Heck, even koreans play here when they're tired of Nexon's.
Do you flame/rage when something bad happens? I think you'll lose more that way because you're bound to get more focus on blaming/flaming your teammates rather than actually trying to win. When someone in my team seems really bad, I either ignore them or tell them it's fine and we'll still win. I think my winrate improved significantly when I starting being like that. Now i get random friend requests every now and then.
Hi Solanin,
#1 Yes set to english! :)
#2 Agreed. Everyone wants the kills. I think my problem for the past month was I was trying to break out of the guy raising his hand and saying "Ill be support" and trying to branch out.
#3. I actually made some unwise decisions last night after being tired and working all day, I picked poorly let alone my internet had been lagging badly due to cable modem box being flaky even after resets. I had 2 games where I went from 80 ping to 1k ping up and down. Shouldve stopped after the first one.....
#4 Oh thanks! LOL.....
On the rage part... no I don't yell at people when something bad happens. I have MIC and stuff but if the heat is on from others and the blame game starts, I just tend to hit the mute button on people. I really don't like participating in that or hearing about it. Goes back to #4 I guess? I feel that I enjoy the game more if everyone is polite but if not, that mute button is magic.
Just a thought: I think that the mute button should be incorporated in every online game as verbal abuse or flaming since it is as Solanin put "welcome to the internet" :) I started playing games early on in the internet days like DOOM, HEXEN, Command and Conquer, Warcraft, ETC. and vocal verbal abuse was non existent. I would say this, I would not play this game if there was not that handy mute button though.... I would of quit a long time ago!
@ Benao & Yfay
Yes I see that it is possible. I was on the receiving end of another team that picked all carries. I was the feeder with my Pugna though. I was lagging hard so I'd click then REALLY overextend in the laning phase.... Look to your shock and awe of a 1K ping due to poo modem issues:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/487462338
Not proud of it but it is what it is...
My mmr is around 3400 party and solo. In probably 80% of my matches I can call a win or loss at the start of the game accurately just based on picks. What I've found is individual player skill is indeed pretty even in these matches so team composition is generally the deciding factor. And again generally in captain's the team composition is better because one or two players decide everything, but not always. There's no communication in all pick usually, sometimes after a couple picks people type get a carry or get a support but that's about it. The thing is it doesn't break down simply into carry and support. There are a lot more roles than that.
What you really need on a team is lanes that can hold their own, disables and some way to take down towers. How you do this is completely up to your picks though. I prefer to have one disable per lane and a mix of ranged and melee with one support. But you can roll out carry heavy teams if they include players who can fill those roles. Like having bristle and sven in a lane. It seems stupid but spammable slow and aoe bristles plus sven's stun can be pretty nasty. Or having necrophos on your team. He's not a typical carry that needs craploads of farm and can't support. He supports everyone with his healing, similar to dazzle, he's like a carry dazzle.
Here's a game where opposing team radiant picked pretty balanced, three supports with great team fight, a semi carry tank and a hard carry/ganker. The problem was where is their tower dmg going to come from? Slark doesn't push towers, timber's auto attack dmg sucks so he's not dropping them, you're basically depending on chen's armies to kill towers for you, or counting on warlock and rubrik in a team fight wiping everyone so you can 5 man a tower.
Meanwhile our team at first glance seems really stupid, 4 carries with pudge mid and razor and bounty sharing offlane, way less than ideal, you might think oh crap this is a definite loss. But we have far more disables and like I said they literally have no pushers so we just sat back and out farmed them. Of course it helped that pudge rolled early but he's going to do that vs 3 int heroes, and bounty is going to shred them too. Anyway it just shows team comp is a very weird and complex thing.
"A tank is a style of character in gaming, often associated with a character class. A common convention in real-time strategy games, role-playing games, Fighting Games and MUDs, tanks redirect enemy attacks or attention toward themselves in order to protect other characters or units. "
There is no tank role in Dota,
only durable heroes.
* OK, there are "3 tanks" in Dota "Using an ability to force enemies to attack the Durable rather than his or her allies. The only examples of this currently in-game are Axe and Legion Commander, although Winter Wyvern also possesses a similar ability."
@ Wit.Hin_T
Sorry when I mean "TANK" I mean a guy that can absorb a lot of damage sorry! I.E. Bristle, AXE, Timbersaw, Clockwerk, centaur Warunner etc. so basically a STR. hero that is not a carry and is "DURABLE".
Anyhow I am really excited about the 6.80 patch coming out over the ALL PICK change. 1GP lost per second is a good punishment I think and is a start in the right direction to make ALL PICK part of my line up again after a few days of letting people realize the punishment involved on waiting to pick.
people are severely overestimating ap gold change. I mean we are talking about 1 measly gold per second. for 50 seconds that's a total of one branch. it's completely worthless.
Hmmm when you put it that way xan yes... yes that is a poor AP fix. At least it's a step in the right direction though. Better some punishment then no punishment I suppose
Easiest way to fix the penalty is to a) force random when the timer is out; or b) penalize by taking gold like repicking does in all random
I can't figure out why this is difficult.
My brother who is around 2300 says there's lots of abandons. I know when I was 2900 after trying to support ranked a lot I was able to dig out of there just by taking snow ball heroes and working my way up. I would think weaver, bounty, slark, lifestealer, death prophet, viper, blood seeker, pudge and probably more who you are good at could do it. What you want to be able to do is reliably get kills at 6, and have late game relevance. An Axe or Pudge might be able to do it as well.
Yeah, your team comp will suck, but you can't rely on anyone. All you can do is try to not loose your lane hard. Keep a TP on hand and rotate when you see another lane getting dove / ganked and counter-gank. And give your team a boost. Having heroes who can push well like shadow shaman, centaur, nature's prophet, and death prophet help a lot. Death Prophet alone is OP at those levels with her fast move and killer ult. Just get Arcanes, Euls, BLood stone and you should be unstoppable.
Also, your starting MMR of 3300 took in to account who you play with. You might have to accept if your friends are better than you, the drop was from play style. But don't hard support unless you can win a game solo. Witch Doctor and DP can, but I don't know of too many other supports who can pretty much carry. Maybe a rhasta or dazzle if you are really good. But I'd focus on a smaller pool in AP and just grind it up.
At 2200 you really can first pick some OP hero and just win if you really are that much better.
@ Cm. artemis
Yes I like both options A or B. That seems like a better shake. Just my luck I would be on the team that no one picks after the timer hit 0:00! :O
@ Bloody Toe nail
Yes some are better, some are worse, I've evened back out past 2900 solo though. I took into account that All Pick was a joke in MMR, and I do better picking as Cpt. than most so I just forced the results in my favor more. Expectations are high for captains mode/draft, and All pick I should call it "always lose". I seem to have piss poor luck on it.
(Granted I noticed a trend.... I like to branch out when doing all pick and do something else other than what I usually play like I do in CM/CD. Possibly more people tend to do that than just me and with everyone picking "strange" characters they don't usually play with it throws the game) IDK just food for thought.
You are right on AP mode, definitely the hardest mode if you want to make your MMR go high. But you know what, I happened to played all my MMR in AP mode, all of it. After calibration period, I only had 2.8k MMR. I think it is too low considering the MMR of other people here, so what I did was., I switched roles from time to time given on what circumstances it may be and this is the result.
Based on real life experience:
Below 3k MMR --> I usually get my fave heroes, no restrictions, you can do what you want and luck will play a good role if your team mates were fine.
3k ~ 3.5K --> I can still get my jungler heroes, mid and offlane heroes, not much of a problem if someone feeds, you just have to deal with it.
3.5k ~ 4K --> This time I only got 2 heroes that I can depend on, CM (support) and Luna (carry). I get good results and decent fight if I pick these 2 heroes and lose hard if I random or pick heroes that I can't really played with.
4k above --> always support or semi carries, no more hard carries, game always finished by 30 mins or sometimes 40 mins.
right now I'm stucked at 3.9k to 4k, got to figure it out on how things work on 4k.
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
Hello,
When starting out after the ranked match patch was introduced, I neglected to select "ALL PICK" as part of my solo Ranked match, and stuck with "Captains Mode" and "Captains Draft". I had a MMR of 3.3K starting out in the new patch rollout. Typically I would pick the team and have minimal of 2 support roles, 1 tank, a semi carry and a hard carry (seems to be the most effective lineup in my mind)
Long queue times some nights lead me to check box the "All Pick" box so I could find a game in under 8 minutes. Now queue time is at 2~3 minutes in North American Servers. What tends to happen in this mode is:
1. I get more people that do not speak english. Tough to establish team picks and tactics with a language barrier.
2. Everyone wants to play a carry. Please look at my profile and see that I end being forced into what I call a "Hard support" role where I am tasked to buy the courier/upgrade it, ward, buy mek or other support items. Very tough role to be put in when its easier to distribute the tasks between two (in my mind at least.)
3. I seem to get more people that dive towers, feed the courier to the enemy team, or farm the jungle for 30 minutes.
4. People seem generally less polite on All Pick
Therefore, after 3 weeks of being in the All Pick as my queue, I have removed it 5 days ago. I have bumped my tanked rating I had from 3.2k to 2.2k MMR and have boosted it back up to 2.7K mmr.
My feelings towards All Pick is it is not a viable option when wanting to achieve a higher MMR due to those experiences I have had listed.
I would like to see some general thoughts on what I have posted if your experience is the same as I have here with All Pick.
Another thing I would like to know, I saw someone respond to me last week that "An All hard carry team is a viable option". I would like to see someone post their game where they had won with an All hard carry team. I really do not believe this is a great strategy but if higher MMR people can prove me wrong I would like to see examples.
Thanks,