General DiscussionTranquil boots (specifically on lich)

I can't frost spam if playing support or I lose the regen.

what? spells doesn't cancel the regen...

roaming heroes

I still build it on Lich and CM, I don't autoattack very often anyway, I prefer to harass with the spells, which don't put it on cooldown and yes, denying put them on cooldown too, but when you are denying you are generally not being aggresive yet. Carry's shouldn't consider it anymore, yes. I haven't played Lion in ages, but I think they are still good boots for him. No, not Jakiro, he still needs a bigger manapool.

I'm pissed about them more because they just aren't worth it anymore on Warlock, I felt dirty in my last game where I built Arcane's for the first time with him...and yes, I know I looked like a complete weirdo for always building tranquils on him.

Just about every roaming hero that needs little in the way of actual farm.

You don't need lots of hp regen on lich early. Just use consumables. Then make mech. Tranquils are weak, get treads or phase.

Lich has the power to zone out nearly any other hero if supporting actively in the lane. You don't need to take autoattack hits. You just have to use the slow, hit them a few times, and back up. You will always have another nuke and they will not. IF they man fight, you kill them, then salve up. If not they take dmg and hide, you take none...do it again every time they get close. Your carry will have near perfect free farm and their offlaner will have crap. Any time you can get into a 1 v 1 with Lich early do it. Just be aware of where other heroes are. If enemy support is near, hit them with a frost nova and back up. If they don't have support hit them with frost nova and attack.

If you use the full power of Lich nuke spam no single hero can heal enough to stay in the lane. I don't know why anyone would need the regen from tranquils. If you are taking that much dmg then you are attacking from the wrong positions and at the wrong times. You need to learn how to avoid and control creep agro.

http://dotabuff.com/players/103176226/matches?hero=lich&game_mode=&match_type=real
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You will notice in the handful of Lich games I have lost, things went so badly I did not even get mech. But that's only going to happen when both other lanes feed really hard. I lost only 7 of 45 Lich games. In 6 of those I did not complete mech. Mech is important for Lich. I've won plenty of games without mech...basically because we did not need it for one reason or another. But when you are losing you need it. Mech first is the best build for Lich. In games where its close you need to go with the best build.

When you pick up the headdress of rejuvenation you have 4 hp/s regen in total. That's plenty. There is no need to get tranquils.

Tranqs come with more than just the heal though. The movement speed makes it a better overall option when moving between lanes than even phase as long as they're never broken in the motion(though very small difference on the fastest base movement heroes). Even when broken they still allow you to move faster than all other boots(excluding BoT and active Phase). And don't forget that you ALWAYS have the armor now. The health regen is just a bonus.

But like I said, it doesn't have much of a place on anything other than a roamer.

Lich is fast enough with just regular boots. If you find you are not getting into position in time, the real problem is you are not starting to move in time. I nearly always get treads because an extra 114 hp is important for Lich.

The most critical thing that Lich does is cast a good chain frost. To be able to do that you need to wait for the moment in the fight when the enemy team has to more forward and closer together. That moment is almost never at the beginning of the fight so Lich must survive the initial nukes.

Lich has tons of armor with mech and frost. What he does not have is plenty of hp to survive nukes. This is why treads is a better choice.

That's true because Lich is on the top end of movement speed. My post though is in reference of just general use of the item, not specific to just Lich.

I think traquils are very good for a slow roaming hero like crystal maiden who does not need mana. Kotl can also make good use of them...although I use so much mana on KotL I find I still need arcanes. Venomancer is another slow roaming hero that could use tranquils well. But again I find that someone needs to have arcanes and if I am support veno...I am probably the best choice to get the arcanes.

Rubic is another slow roaming hero that might want traquils...but again to fully use his abilities and the expensive spells he can steal you need arcanes.

http://dotabuff.com/items
Phase and Arcanes are used over 3X more than tranquils. Treads are used over 6X more. Heroes end the game with regular boots of slowness about the same number of times they end with traquils. This is because tranquils are just not very good in nearly every game situation.

Traquils did gain a tiny bit of use relative to boots of slowness in patch 6.79.
http://dotabuff.com/items?date=patch_6.79
But they are still just as far behind the other choices. I think they are really purchased slightly more just because supports get 0.2 more gold/s so they can afford them more often in losing games.

I dunno, recently I've fallen in love with drums and the 9 int from them seems to cover my ability to stay out in lanes(and tranq + drum = racecar :D). If you're the only support, then yea, arcanes, but if you're not then the tranqs are a pretty good alternative. It's also really cheap in comparison.

Well...your top 16 most played heroes are not support heroes. #17 is venomancer and you have 30% winrate. Your judgement on what supports should get is rather suspect.

I think you would find you would do better to get arcanes, phase, or treads in nearly every situation.

Just throwing theory at you. You're right I don't play support often. All I really know is that I haven't regretted purchasing them when I have since the patch.

Thanks relentless, you confirmed what I was thinking. Tranqs just not that good.

I actually just tried it out in my most recent game. I think it may have cost me some deaths. A lot of these were very close, where the enemy survives on the tiniest sliver of hp (usually pudge) because dazzle was graving him. If I had treads like usual instead of tranquils I think this game would have been a lot easier. Or maybe I just misjudged the scaling of tankiness I needed as the game went on. I seemed to keep coming up just short of enough hp to live.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/374503366

When you have a dangerous Lich who knows how to cast the ult...it really hurts. People react, they go all out to kill you before you can use it. This is why a good Lich needs to get as tanky as possible. This game I had pudge blinking to ult me if he could not hook me and then he was shallow graved when he got low...rot his full hp on me + nearly 5 more sec of rot.

Also it was against a real pro players stack of friends (Rox.KiS. Sedoy). His dazzle was amazing. I need to go back and take notes. My dazzle build is nowhere near as good as his. He got 5.3k heals!. I had only 2.9k. My record is over 9k heals for dazzle but those records good and bad are always unfair, unusual games. This one was a fair fight.

people forget that tranqs are still cheapest upgraded boots by far. still very good on certain heroes.

I started buying phase boots after I get the mek, if it goes well of course, money is always tight as lich...obviously I'm bad, but a few kills or assists early and get dem phase boots after the mek. Tranquils first for the early game and then sell them.

It took me a while to realise, (because nothing about this game seems to come naturally to me, probably just dumb!), but tranquils breaking is such a bitch.

You're trying to run away and you lose speed, at least with phase boots you can gain speed when you need to leg it, it really makes a huge difference.

broken tranq now /= broken boots pre patch

The current TRANQUIL BOOTS is still great on lich. Or other support / roam who have no need for mana (cm / lion).
You can spam frost and that will not make tranquil broken.
Also, the tranquil will NOT broken if you are hit by magical damage or hp removal. Only physical attack will break it.
You will be surprised how infrequent tranq on lich will be broken in real game (well, unless your lich attacks alot. I only use 1st skill to last hit, as early as lane phase). I have so many times that tranq is not broken after team fights so I can chase at 400 speed.

Right, It also makes Lich a fast runner (315+85 = 400). 375 even if broken. You can then buy drum and eul to make a race car lich. pretty fun
Also so cheap. so cheap.

I just noticed that the only boots type I bought for lich is tranq XD
http://dotabuff.com/players/67902131/matches?hero=lich&game_mode=&match_type=real

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I used to get tranq for spec (I play spec a lot), now I forced switch to vanga for the regen.
I used to hate early vanga and thought it was the worst start build for spec. Now I think vanga spec is great.
I agree tranq now is just no-way for carry earlygame, unless u don't farm :D

Yeah I know Sampson, but it's still a negative to your move speed when running, phase just gives that little bit of escape lich needs sometimes.

(when you position yourself as bad as I do)

Might as well just make a shadow blade if your positioning is that bad :P

Actually I found tranquils quite useful on lich.
Turn off Autoattack, and you can just say in lane regaining health while you convert creeps for mana. Shouldn't really be autoattacking much if you're lich anyway (unless you're going for denies).

^exactly.
and LH using 1st skill.

people just need to get this "broken" boots idea out of their heads and realize all it really does is turn of the INSANE regen(minor speed decrease but its still fast)

Right, I don't think the speed is that important. As I said lich is fast enough no matter what boots you get if you position correctly. His base MS is 315, nearly the highest in the game. I like treads because surviving just slightly longer is important for lich.

Also treads switching is very strong on Lich because you gain mana in a burst so frequently. If you get mech the same is true for your heal. A level 7 lich with STR treads on a magic wand has 907 hp. With tranquils its 755. This may not seem like a lot but its the difference that puts you just out of range so you cannot be burst down with nukes. That is what makes excellent Chain Frosts. You use up several enemy spells, still get off a good cast, and get away...or die, but at least you can cast your combo first because they don't have the power to kill you with only 1 disable and nukes. If they spend 2 disables and several nukes on just lich...your other heroes are going to crush them.

I suspect that people are not having the gold to get treads because they did not win the lane. Lich should always win the lane. Get a kill early nearly every game. FB maybe 75% of games.

there is no such thing as being too fast when you are taking positioning into account the faster you are the easier it is to position yourself

Here's an alternative way to look at this situation

I don't think you can sufficiently compare the two boots because they are not evenly priced. With power treads costing 425 more than tranquil boots, you still have room to spend for more items.

Personally, if I don't grab power treads for that game, I'd grab tranquil boots + a bracer. It would only cost 100 more than treads, but gives you more stats as well as greater movement speed. This build would probably suit newer players better or a hard 5 support lich who does nothing but buy wards 24/7.

Relentless, you are horrible at the game. lol

Lich doesn't need that +10 regen all the time, he isn't a hero that needs to tank creeps, ever, he rarely takes much damage outside of fights, and when he does, he can happily wait a few seconds, get full HP again and go back to whatever he was doing. Heroes like Anti-mage and shit need that extra regen from RoH because of not just harass in the lane, but even when they go jungle they take a fair amount of damage, even after stout/high armor. Tranquils give sufficient regen for Lich.

They also give an incredible movement speed bonus too, and as a hero that is going to be moving around the map a hell of a lot, it does make a difference. And that extra HP that treads provides you with definitely doesn't come close to covering that extra MS that comes with tranquils, if you get caught out, you are dead. Treads don't change that, nor would tranquils if you do get caught, but what is important is that you are much less likely to get caught out if you have tranquils. Of course its 400 gold cheaper too, which gives you a little extra cash to to work toward mek/fs/necro3, wards, smoke, or even wand (509). And why the fuck would efficiency matter when you practically never run out of mana to begin with? Treads are only relevant in this aspect if the particular resource is somewhat scarce, not on a hero that can replenish large amounts of his mana pool naturally and doesn't use a whole lot of mana when playing passively.

Tranquils -> Treads on lich every day of the week, its not even a contest.

or you can get a bracer.