The first part is nice, the second one not so nice, because it limits teams' creativity (remember Naga was never used as supp until some time ago)
Ive won plenty of games with 4 carries too bad shit players in normal dont know you can play heroes differently
omg people always have to complain
was naga picked as a support during 2012?
ok so that's my point
maybe also prevent u from picking the same role 2 games in a row (will prevent the 30000000mid pickers and 7 supports)? Don't think it is a good idea but maybe..
@Meow
Naga never was used as a support until recently. She used to be a very hard carry because of her crit (now wave spell) that worked on her illusions.
OT:
I think that is a bad idea, because I have a friend who plays the best support sven ever. Heroes roles are not cut and dry like people think they are and this will prevent creativity and all that.
Also the queue time would be like a year for people who wanna hard carry.
I was hoping for more imagination/creativity and less negativity =/ I know its not going to happen, but I enjoy a good discussion on theory =P
I would imagine that the people waiting forever to play hard carry would quickly decide its not worth the wait, and also queue as another role with a shorter wait. The mm system could rotate those that queue as hard carry, making sure people get relatively fair chances at the roles they want.
As for limiting the hero selection to the assigned role, I agree that wasn't a good idea - for the reasons already mentioned by others. Perhaps it lets you pick w/e hero you want, with ways to reward for sticking to your role, or give some kind of consequence for deviating entirely from your role.
Until then, I'm either stuck with playing support for carry's not worth the effort, or playing on a team full of carries xd.
The biggest problem with the idea is that there is no clear way to deal with the fact that team compositions are different from game to game. Who's to say you will have 2 supports, a carry, a mid, and an offlane? What if you have 1 support, 1 jungler, 1 carry, 1 mid, and 1 offlane? What if you have a 2 - 1 -2 situation with 1 mid, 2 semicarries, and 2 supports? There could even be a mighty push/ganking line up that has no real carry.... I think you get the picture.
By the way, since LoL has no metagame at all and the same laning structure every single game, this would be a great idea for LoL. I'll go ahead and forward a link of your thread to the CEO of LoL.
Well theres the thing, code can always be flexible (im a programmer). I'm sure this idea could be implemented to allow for different team compositions.
@lancew, it's not about the code. It's about how would the algorithm know what a particular group of 5 players intends to do against another group of 5? It's an impossible question to answer.
@vandal, thats irrelevant. As long as each player does some of the standard tasks of their role, it will just be a normal dota match, just more organized.
@6_din_49, well I think most people that would want this mm scheme would want it for the purpose of eliminating 5 carry teams, but it could certainly be supported.
Going back to your previous comment Vandal, perhaps the way to go would be for players to select what team compositions they like to play as, and then select which role also. Each team composition and role could say beside them the average wait time so that players select what they want, but also something with a shorter wait time if impatient.
@lancew, no it's not irrelevant. What if someone queues up for carry only but he wants to choose a pusher to fit the aggressive pushing line up already present and the largely late game line up of the opponents? There are tons of variations on this simple question that will always be unanswered when implementing this idea.
The point is stunningly clear: there is no way to know what combination of "roles" to put on one team. 2 people who selected support? 3? 1? 1 person who selected carry? etc.
No, I get what you're saying, maybe I just didn't explain myself clearly. There could be preset team compositions (pushing oriented team, ganking oriented team, standard, all carries, etc) for players to choose from. The roles within could of course be flexible. The idea is not meant to be constraining, rather it would give players more control over which types of games they play.
preset team compositions may be a bad idea, certain compositions can have advantage against others, every strats have a counter.
if two same team compositions can only be matched together, every game is a boring game, not much macro mind game involved. there goes the "they had 1 hard carry, 2 supp, which way is their sven/jug going for?" guessing and observing opponent's combination are no longer needed. but if they match us in different preset strats, some are deemed to have a slightly [but not in a fun way] upper hand.
No, any composition could be matched against any other. It would be random, but each team could know the others composition, and should pick heroes and builds accordingly. It would be just like how heroes are now. Each hero has a counter, therefore each composition could be countered by any other, with the right picks and item builds.
NO CREATIVITY, NO RETARTITY!
srslu, not a tryhard. I see a lot of people trying to carry with support-like heroes, how often do you see a carry-like heroes tried to be played as supports? People want to be the core hero.
Even if this kind of thing was implemented. carry and mid fags would have to queue for years while supports would find a match in 1 minute.
people who are in the normal bracket should not be trying to push ideas through when they have no idea how the dota meta game works. The drafting phase of a dota 2 game is almost as important as the actual gaming phase being limited to a certain composition would give one team a unfair advantage before the game even started. This idea is as bad as saying some heroes should not have the option to buy certain items because one game a idiot on SF was stacking bloodstones
@FfSampson, say what you will, but the Normal bracket has a huge problem of poorly composed teams, and it really degrades the playing experience. People in the Normal bracket deserve to have fun too you know.
@Hell_raiser, you must not have read my following comments about queue times.
people in normal bracket are idiots regardless of what heroes they pick there is no reason to ruin the game for everyone. I can go through your match history and show u losses in which you had a "optimal" team and lost and I can show games where I had a "non-optimal" team and won. Dota is a flexible game in which there is no set comp, item build or skill build.
I don't really care about losing per say. Games with 4-5 carries just aren't fun, whether you win or not. What I am suggesting won't take away any of the flexibility of dota, it would just make the games more organized.
if you dont understand how it limits the flexibility then there is no point arguing with you anymore because you are clueless. The only thing that will make the game more organized is if you have a organized team. Do you expect people at the bottom of game in terms of skill to be good?
I know exactly what you are proposing and I am telling you exactly why its a horrible idea. Dont start threads if you dont want to back up your claims.
I've backed it up, we just disagree - which is fine. No need to troll me just because you dont like the idea.
"a match making system where you queue as what role(s) you want to play, and it automatically puts you in a team with a balanced set of roles (ie supports, initiators, gankers, carry(s)). When the game starts, you can only choose from a set of heroes in the role that you were matched as."
"What I am suggesting won't take away any of the flexibility of dota"
what planet are you from where limiting a player into 1 role does not limit the flexibility of the drafts
there is no opinions on this part here you are just blatantly wrong but too stuck up to admit it
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
I know this will more than likely never happen, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
What would you guys think about a match making system where you queue as what role(s) you want to play, and it automatically puts you in a team with a balanced set of roles (ie supports, initiators, gankers, carry(s)). When the game starts, you can only choose from a set of heroes in the role that you were matched as.