nice thread, thanks! :) im having a hard time to find people to stack with.
i have a question: i mean there is sth like a pool you are in, like normal high very high etc. is there sth like a very very high pool where most of the "pros" always play in? or is very high = very high no matter what?
even pros sometimes play in the high tier, but often times they end up in the 'very high' section
@ vodkagaming
There are multiple tiers within each group normal, high, very high as far as i can tell
keep in mind that hidden beneath those 3 groups are numbers assigned to each person. Obviously they come in ranges although no one know what that range is but lets say normal is 0-1500
high is 1500- 1900 and 1900+ is very high
well then very high is 1900 to 3000 and theres a huge range of values (but not a very high number of players because remember its a normal distribution and that top tail is very small in size)
because theres so few people up top around 2300+ they are probably all in the same bracket for mm simply because there isnt enough people. Like i mentioned in the long version the system tries to find an even match and sometimes that means matching 5 highly placed "high" players against 1 "pro" and 4 lower placed "high" players.
the evenness of the matches are skewed as the que times become longer so a pro is more likely to be in a lower skill bracket if there are fewer players online that day or through bad luck but it happens.
also i should put this in the long version, STACKING completely screws with the mm system and makes their work that much harder since the system has less people to balance. In a 5v5 stack at very high levels for example "Merlini stack" typically cannot find enough of a 5 man stack at their level so they just stomp through much lower skilled 5 man stacks.
Interestingly though the mm system is good enough that, if 2 pro stacks are in que at the same time they are pretty consistently put against eachother. since, again there are so few people at that level.
Obviously statisticaally when your stack is at the 99.99 percentile the chance of you getting a weaker team is much much more than that of an equal or stronger one. this fact also skews the win rates of pros who stack versus the pros who dont stack. This explains why dendi's win rate is much lower than Merlini's for example. Additionally this in conjunction with my long version explanation of the points you earn explains why Singsing whos win rate is relatively low can have a DBR much higher than pros with high win rates who stack since you almost dont get points for destroying significantly weaker teams.
Normal, high, very high DO NOT MATTER.
They are just categories that valve uses in the game list view. You are matched with your actual rating, NOT YOUR CATEGORY.
your performance in game matters, its not only kda, but it bad to say it is not kda.
Now hero performance is different, but old one showed you how your hero performance rises and goes down. And yea it was mostly kda realtive to your team.
Meaning game where you go 30 0 5 carry, while all in your team is 5 8. And you win a game will litteraly jump you whole skill lvl :D, even if lose , lots of points.
While if you win a game where you are 0 6 4... you wont get any points for sure, perhaps even lose it lol. Specialy if rest have sum of kills and assists over per ally 20 :D . May be different for some heroes, but for most it will show that you were useless and didnt contribute to win at all.
Its harder to tell nowdays, but if you watched all the time it was something like that.
mad dog stock, not a single thing you said was true at all. No part of match making includes KDA or CS. My advice to you is not give advice at all you dont know what you're talking about. The ingame "Performance Bar" is now calculated soley on Win/Loss % with heros vs YOUR other heros you've played. Not a single other person in dota. Hope this is clear for you.
Thats why i said that now hero performance is different. But the one in past coulda given you clear reasoning on how impact on game was calculated.
Im talking about mmr. Not how NOW hero performance bar is calculated. Hero performance bar now is totaly useless.
Yea this also explains why Very High is so annoying to play sometimes. I had a 20 min wait the other night just to get matched vs merlini and friends for the 4th time this week.
კომენტარის დასაწერად გაიარეთ ავტორიზაცია.
So i've seen a ton of threads bitching about the same thing so im going to go ahead and try to explain the idea of the matchmaking system simply.
Disclaimer: i dont work for dotabuff or valve and i did not use webapi to access actual game data to prove what im about to say is true. The information is purely from my own knowledge of how skill rating systems work and statistics. im sure lots of people will try to disprove me but this is to give people an idea of how it works not reveal exactly whats going on. (only valve knows)
SIMPLE VERSION
Win rates don't really matter because it's a zero sum game where if you win one someone lost one. But obviously we can all agree that winning against a pro player is worth more than winning against a noob. The matchmaking system knows this too and takes it into account.
You get shit teammates because the community is small right now and the system has a hard time finding a completely even match for you in a reasonable amount of time. Valve is trying to balance even teams with short que times.
Losses against pro players or when you have a really horrible team doesnt matter as much so dont worry about those really bad games.
Players with a relatively small number of games are probably not fully representative of their real skill level, either above or below.
KD does not matter (only on some chinese wc3 dota clients) but since feeding tends to lead to losses there is a relationship.
Win rates only matter when they significantly devaiate from the average, Super pros with 65%+ and complete idiots or trolls with 35% or less.
FULL VERSION
What it is: Matchmaking is generally done by assigning each starting player a default value of skill. This value is typically the value within the system that represents the mean within the player population relative to the scale they use to assess the skill. This stuff is all nominal and doesnt mean much by itself.
What that means: create a scale from 0-3000 (this is what dotabuff did), valve (who determines who you are matched with will have a similar system)
First we assign everyone a starting value of lets say 1500 (the median of the range but interestingly enough according to dotabuff not the mean) and only the best of the best get anywhere close to 3000. And as proven by dotabuff this is a normal distribution just like one would expect.
Then we track every game that is ever played by every player and calculate their new ratings continuously as each game is played.(and since dota is a team game this gets very complicated)While the winning team wins points for their players the losing team loses points for every player. The amount of points won and lost is dependent on each player and their skill level relative to every other player and the overall match. A win could mean almost nothing to one player and huge to another, same for losses. Over a long time some people move from 1500 to 3000 and others from 1500 to 1100.
THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART: The game typically attempts to create an "even game" but not assign "even players" this means that the ratings across the teams is not identical. For example games are not matched with 10 players with 1650 rating. but rather matched with two teams with a weighted average rating of 1650. Because the dota 2 community is small right now the matchmaking system will not be able to find the perfect match so valve would have to set an acceptable range of ratings across teams. Imagine trying to match 10 people who are exactly the same level of skill, it would make finding a match take forever.
This is why sometimes people are stuck with others who are much less skilled than they are, because the system is just trying to find a relatively even skilled team and this was the best they can do at that moment. I would assume that their search range increases as matchmaking time increases, this means that as you take longer to find a match it is more likely the system will just say "screw it, just play with these guys cus we cant find you a match right now".
THE GOOD NEWS: WIN RATES DOES NOT MATTER (only a little)
Since the ratings are based off of relative skill levels across teams for example (1500 vs 1700), and somehow you end up on the bad end of that, a loss in this situation would not decrease your rating significantly. on the other hand if you have a strong team and completely throw to a bunch of noobs you are screwed. So not all wins and losses are equal (which is why win rate doesnt really matter).
interestingly because of this if you are extremely skilled and can consistently overcome bad teammates you will rise in the system extremely quickly (as seen by the top 50 page).