General Discussion

General DiscussionHow to deal with axe when playing anti mage.

How to deal with axe when playing anti mage. in General Discussion
is matchmaking broken?

    I tried playing anti mage a couple of times against axe . The game gets really hard. Specially when your supports are dumb and will make kaya and dagons instead of euls.
    So my question is how can i win lane or at least last hit in lane against axe assuming i am alone in the lane. And if i build damage items, how can i deal with axe later stages of game. Because if he gets a good call usually 50 percent or more hp is just lost to blademail.
    I have tried vlad and skipping fury rushing manta. But then i dont have enough damage to get supports. Tried skadi as well didnt help. Even satanic is useless if axe manages to get silver edge.

    თემა შეიცვალა
    Potato Marshal

      Why would Satanic be useless if he gets Silver Edge?

      CUTNPASTE

        You can’t do anything in lane unless you have a support that can deal with axe like bane. Even then it’s hard.

        Later on you should not build full damage unless you are confident your team can save you from axe. Heart, ac, satanic are all good options.

        DC.MASON

          just manta dodge call lol

          fx

            Train manta dodge call and farm the opposite side of axe

            Ayaneru   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

              Outfarm him. Rely on your supports. Dota is a 5v5 game. If you outfarm him, you can eat Axe for breakfast.

              is matchmaking broken?

                actually bane sounds really decent solution, but i will play bane myself more to see how it works with mage. And heart of tarasque seems good option as well. Thanks for suggestions. But its hard to outfarm when he is sitting in offlane and just push infintely.

                Talker

                  Play support, when you know how to ensure rd lane for your carry.

                  Or use your mic to tell your support what you need.

                  Love those carries who knows exactly what supp should do, but pick am and only complain.

                  Muelsyse

                    Oh my, should you play squishy hero, axe will eat you, axe usually have two styles, max E (for meele) and max W (for ranged), my opinion, you as an Anti-Mage, should rely on your support because he will play aggressive if he thinks, it will not bring harm to him. But i think, if u max mana burn first, you can do... somehow quite a damage to him. Of course, axe is a mana-hungry hero.

                    And there's a case if axe start playing bd, in this case, he will go beyond ur t2 tower and spin your creep then go back to jungle. You as a carry, must prioritze your last hit. You should ask the support to do the harassing.

                    I'm a decent axe player and this is from my experience playing him. Hope this helps.

                    Oh my, for the late game, hmmm. Be patient please. Wait for him to initiate, JUST.WAIT. Then you go.

                    კომენტარი შეიცვალა
                    i have 5 reports to use

                      axe cant kill u :)

                      shady_stuff

                        what if u r 500 mmr and ur team no have supports
                        theyre just people who pick int heroes and say in the all chat "i picked a support"
                        and then proceed to autoattack creepwave

                        TheRRogue

                          Learn about creep equilibrium and start buying more regen. If the axe was maxing his w,go opt for more point in spell shield,much better you could also try to reflect it on him although it quite hard. If the axe still farming your lane past T1 death,start tp to another lane and farm there. For late game,most of the time and axe could barely kill you with blademail call if you out farm him since he wouldn't have any mana anyway. If you can't out farm him,just w8 for him to iniate on someone else first before going in.

                          Super Ring

                            Not just 3 digit mmr. Even most 1k trash and some 2ks supports will start auto attacking and steal your last hit.
                            And the end up buiding "carry" items instead of warding and uitlitiy items.
                            And pos 1 will end up getting flamed and reported for not being able to carry the game.

                            Oldman

                              As I spent so much time on offlane I'd say that Witch doctor is best against tanky offlaners. Maledict really hurts heros that want to frontline.

                              კომენტარი შეიცვალა
                              A̶𝖘𝖍𝖊𝖘

                                Just burn axe's mana. LOL

                                Vandal

                                  Tell support to pick Winter Wyvern

                                  Super Ring

                                    Pick dazzle.
                                    Poison touch axe if he backdoors and keep chasing him to death.

                                    ubica

                                      if you are talking about low level games, you can easily counter axe cutting waves in the laning stage by just cutting waves yourself!
                                      also, dont show up to the fight until you see axe commit to a call or splitpush.

                                      varjager

                                        Axe is annoying in the laning stage but AM should easily catch up, the main problem is mid game if Axe got a team that can burst down AM during call.
                                        Dont know how many times i think i shut down AM to see him come back, proceed to step two, call him and let my team burst him down.

                                        I think ive said before that i hate playing against AM.

                                        კომენტარი შეიცვალა
                                        Muelsyse

                                          Oh my, it is all of us that bear a great hatred against Anti-Mage, thus making us committed to shut down his farm, no matter what.

                                          CARRY OR FEED

                                            git gud

                                            Vandal

                                              @Self-proclaimed as cute.
                                              The hate towards AM is even more absurd in lower mmr.
                                              I don't remember a single game where at least 4 heroes didnt show in my lane before minute 10-15 and stalked me around the map, even ignoring creepwaves on their way

                                              People get a hard on when they see AM

                                              I think It's usually best to let him farm all he wants, but knock on his HG very early. killing him doesn't matter that much

                                              '96 Neve Campbell

                                                Hows about not picking anti-mage into an axe?

                                                varjager

                                                  Yeah, and here is another piece of advice stay away from kids cause their hair is filled with mad lice.

                                                  Johnny B. Goode

                                                    Laning first:
                                                    Obviously you can't trade with Axe in lane. If you're AM against Axe you lost the lane and have to play accordingly. There are two scenarios how Axe plays the lane here. Either he constantly pushes it by standing in the creep wave and aggroing it or even cutting the wave. Then your job is easy. Wait for the wave to go under tower. He will dive you but you cant die to him. Get the xp and the last hits you can get.
                                                    Or he tries to zone you from the wave. Two possibilities to react: Either use constant creep aggro to get the creeps (and make the creeps aggro him thus so the wave will push into you). Or pull the wave. Most carries even in kinda high mmr lack the game understanding to see that they can pull themselves.
                                                    See, in any way, your only chance to get last hits is if the wave goes under your tower. And no matter how Axe plays, you have a counterplay to achieve that.

                                                    Game:
                                                    Axe +1 can kill you easily in midgame. There is no item you wanna buy to survive him plus a teammate. The solution is very simple. Watch the map and create space for yourself by pressuring lanes.
                                                    If you are familiar with how AM is supposed to play this should be easy to you. The deadlane concept is the basic. On top of that, of course even the alive lane is dangerous to you if you dont have a ward and dont see Axe. Creep waves have much higher priority to kill than jungle camp, push the wave as far as you can without being in too much danger. Make the enemy react to your pressure, then change the lane. 1-2 heroes have to react to the double wave you created, if Axe is stupid he even shows on lanes (which happens very often in low mmr). Then the other lane is safe. Do the same. Push as far as you feel it's safe. Then retreat, kill some jungle camps, see them react to your pressure, change lane.
                                                    AM is a very easy and super straight forward hero. You only need to know five things, creep aggro for the lane, map awareness, deadlane concept, the ability to pressure lanes and the concept of outmoving your killthreat.

                                                    lexdog

                                                      gidgud

                                                      Sanft & Sorgfältig

                                                        There's an actual 7k Player explaining you cant win the Lane, and you stupid 2k fucks have to leave you opinions here.
                                                        Wtf is wrong with u?

                                                        twitch.tv/afeect

                                                          Once u get past laning stage u don't give a fuck about axe. Also while in lane, just play with creep aggro to get some farm.

                                                          Lazer

                                                            I'm no 7k player but I do watch 7k games on a daily basis and also play a bit of AM myself.

                                                            I think Johnny B. Goode said it very well ^ especially for the bracket you are in. The 7k player's advice is accurate, I'm sure, but our lower bracket really lacks the understanding of what Johnny said and not just with AM, but the general concepts of pressure and understanding the what/why/where of the deadlane. AM is probably one of, if not the best, hero to abusive these ideas.

                                                            poggies

                                                              Unless if it’s axe grimstroke I really don’t see you dying to him just rush roh.
                                                              You have to be really braindead if you don’t get at least a 15 minute fury in this patch it’s that easy. 13 minutes if you’re good. If you have no idea or are incapable of getting a 15 fury even when pressured you shouldn’t play safelane because gaining mmr as safelane is all about the item timings

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                                                              kowareta

                                                                in ur bracket, if cant lh against axe, u dont know about creep aggro, google it!

                                                                and stop saying dumb ass teammates :))). smurfs win their games with that people , so improve ur self!

                                                                is matchmaking broken?

                                                                  Thanks alot for all the advice everyone gave. Really appreciate that.
                                                                  And the people who are saying that i pick AM into axe. No sir i dont do that. I am at around 2.9k now, and still enemy usually picks last pick axe even though they dont have support or any other disable. So axe does jump in as a possibilty every game. Additionally i pick anti mage a little earlier, sometimes 4th or even 3rd which is my fault. But my allies rarely let last pick to be their pos 1. If i am picking last i am either supporting or getting reported.
                                                                  From what i have gathered so far. I need to survive laning phase with decent last hits, avoid axe in mid game and get fat enough late game to be untouchable.
                                                                  And everyone asking me if i can lh or not. I start with 9 tangos sometimes just to live enough. Please read my original post. I said if i am alone in the lane it gets hard as you are trying to save your tower as well. I am still in that bracket where i have to pull the waves myself as my support doesn't usually know how to do that :)

                                                                  Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                                                                    There's an actual 7k Player explaining you cant win the Lane, and you stupid 2k fucks have to leave you opinions here.
                                                                    Wtf is wrong with u?

                                                                    So much bulls***t in one sentence.
                                                                    1: the topic is "how to deal" not "how to win lane"
                                                                    2: Magina doesn't win the lane, he tries to get his battlefury ASAP
                                                                    3: OP is playing in 2.9k, not in immortal : the axe won't have the same micro and quick hands as in high MMR
                                                                    4: Nice magina pick, losing to a magnus : https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4261269283
                                                                    5: There is always room for outplaying in dota : doppelganger and bait before earthshaker blinks in, etheral blade on the meepo that is targeted by winter curse, etc...

                                                                    TLDR: You are a 2k player as well, why do you leave your opinion here ? Nice english BTW (your opinion, don't thank me)

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                                                                    CUTNPASTE

                                                                      If you are relying on doppleganger for es blink+slam you are a moron, echo slam has no cast point so you literally have to cast doppleganger before he slams you.

                                                                      კომენტარი შეიცვალა
                                                                      Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                                                                        If you are relying on doppleganger for es blink+slam you are a moron, echo slam has no cast point so you literally have to cast doppleganger before he slams you.

                                                                        IKR ? You can also bait only with illus and/or wait for him to have jumped in in order to play around denying his blink and staying at safe range.

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                                                                        kuci

                                                                          nice joke dodging echo slam lol

                                                                          Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                                                                            ^EZ with vision, just don't get caught by Q. Without vision you just need to bait with illus.

                                                                            Fuka suginai o nīchan

                                                                              "what if u r 500 mmr and ur team no have supports "
                                                                              if you cant deal with an 500mmr axe then pls stay in your mmr xD

                                                                              SirIronSights

                                                                                if your am, you dont neccesarily need good supports, you need to be good yourself.
                                                                                good supports are nice, but if you farm efficiently you can outfarm your enemy.
                                                                                in that case am gets really strong early game, you can pretty much solowin a game with him.
                                                                                also, am vs axe is an easy earlygame, would not suggest picking am versus axe, unless your team has capabilitys to stall a game to a point that your farm is decent, if its an earlygame win/draw for the other team, am gets a hard time to recover, especially if axe roams your ass with a carry.

                                                                                კომენტარი შეიცვალა
                                                                                SirIronSights

                                                                                  on that note, you are dumb as well, welcome to the herald 1k/2k mmr pubs sir :)
                                                                                  the only way to improve is to just (like me) accept ur shit, and dont put the blame by the supports.
                                                                                  i would recommend looking after the match and note some points you can improve, then improve these.
                                                                                  after that your mmr can go up a little.

                                                                                  SirIronSights

                                                                                    @VIØLETS genius! still salty about your own topic going shit?
                                                                                    like we all know youre like 'pls help me im a 3k mmr stuck in a 1k pub'
                                                                                    everyone responded to it like: cant win a 1k pub? thats because you belong there.
                                                                                    stop being salty :smileyface: