General Discussion

General DiscussionHitting a ceiling

Hitting a ceiling in General Discussion
Synyster Gates

    I have 1900+ hours on dota. Started at 1.2k solo and reached 2.2k in 6 months. Have been playing mostly support after 1.5k with winrate around 56%. Lately, I haven't been able to win consistently. My carries lately have been quite incompetent and if I play carry i generally get 550+ gpm but my supports would keep dying. I'm not saying I'm amazing but I'm losing a lot and I don't know why. Almost every match all the enemy players are high ranked than mine. I just don't get what's happening.

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    shady_stuff

      grind some party q so u know what its like to have both good players on your team and enemy team.. then learn from those matches, and apply it to you solo q games

      Karellen

        I've noticed patterns in all my time playing this game, including my own. Typically, people have 1 MMR point for each hour they spend on the game. This matches up with you as well. It was a bit easy for me to climb out of 3k back in 2015, I always had the same mindset and I can already see you don't have it.

        My carries lately have been quite incompetent

        Excuses. I won't bother explaining in detail, I will only say focus on your self only bro. No. More. Excuses. The world isn't against you, we need to fix that first before you can climb. Everyone is working with the broken system, not just you bro. REMEMBER, you are NOT a special snowflake. YOU are another one of us, struggling to work with a broken system. You will work with the system and accept it, or you will abandon it.

        Ranks don't matter very much right now, even if they WERE mathematically superior to you it's a self-created issue, it's not Valve's issue that reality is going to be as it is. Valve are no magicians. It's entirely your responsibility to have so much skill, yes, so much skill that you take over the game. Once you reach that level of skill, you are displaying a clear superiority in skill. If you're actually good bro, you won't even think too much about your teammates. Maybe in a "oh, they're taking a shitty fight mid? Alright, I will take this racks then! Thanks idiots, lmao."

        0 excuses gaming dude. Be real with yourself.

        AnŦaiN

          ^^^People have 1 mmr point for 1 hour they spend ?
          I got 3k hours 4.5k mmr . What bout smurfs?

          Jack__Attack

            I started at 900mmr. 2500hrs later I'm 3.7. Its pretty much right on.

            Jacked

              lol i think i got 3k in like less than 1k hours

              Jacked

                that feeling of - if i play support my carries suck, if i play carry my supports suck, no matter what i do it seems the enemy is always better - is simply you not being able to consistently outperform your team & your enemies. it means you are exactly where you belong. whatever indicator that tells you you are doing better than your team is very wrong. because doing better than your team is not the indicator of skill. being better than the enemy is.

                i'll give you an example. ohhh im farming well, gtting all last hits but enemy is killing all my supports. my supports are feeding they are bad. right? WRONG. the enemy carry is owning hard and pressuring harder than you are. he kills your supports 5 times in 10 mins while you sit just trying to stay out of trouble so their supports rotate on your ass, rotate on mid, and you end up losing the game. if the enemy carry is killing shit while you aren't, it means youre bad because you are doing worse than the enemy carry.

                look to the enemy team, and not your own. people don't feed in dota. they get rekt hard but the enemy while you're fucking twiddling your thumb and the enemy support are laughing at you having a great time.

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                Jacked

                  so how do you start killing enemy supports 5 times in 10 mins? that should be your goal every game.you gotta learn to outplay people who get better and better and know your tricks. you gotta be one step ahead of the crusaders, then the archons, then the legends, each one better than the last and knows your tricks. you gotta always be next level m8. git gud.

                  Jacked

                    what's working for me right now in archon is like this, and i do it every game until it doesnt work. so i am spamming furion now for fun. i take 2 treants at the start of the game from fountain, walk to enemy rune. enemy walks up thinks they can contest a lone furion. i summon 2 more treants. 4 treants and 1 furion. they refuse to back down at the rune (for whatever reason, because this is the 'ceiling' of the archon brain). i get first blood more often than should be the case. but this is just what you can get away with in archon. afterawhile they start being more coordinated. they bring 2 heroes. sometimes it still works even with 2 heroes because they are that bad.

                    but you get the point. once they start thwarting your plan, you gotta change it up, do different things to get ahead. in crusader its easy. they dont even show up to rune. so u just take their rune. imagine if u could take their rune every game at the start, but u stand on your own hill like a fuc.king p.ussy. how'd that look?

                    examine yourself. examine your plays friend.

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                    Karellen

                      ^ This guy GETS IT.

                      As you progress, you will start to learn new tricks. Basically, by the time you're 4k you've learned most of the tricks but then you need to apply them in reality which is not the same as KNOWING to do something.

                      It's really interesting once you are on top of the hill so to speak, overlooking those beneath you. You can see how bad they are at the game, but THEY can not. It's very, very hard to self-analyze -- I think that is so because our ego tries to keep us narcissistic so as to remain relatively evolutionarily competent. You will be able to punish someone's mistakes without making any of your own vs people worse than you because it's literally naturally easy. At this point where you ARE better than your enemies, you may as well be replaying a single player game because low ranks are soooo predictable that it becomes really easy to game the system if you're someone who is able to think outside of the box and adapt.

                      The majority of humans you will meet, let me tell you, their logical processors are of low quality. Most of these people will naturally gravitate towards the low end of MMR. They are generally the loudest and will think they have things figured out already, because hey, it doesn't take work to become a valuable being right? You are just born a special snowflake with lots of skills, according to their minds. The only thing that can help these people is a good upbringing, so it's too late. People are like NPC's, just unbelievably stupid, selfish, etc. A lot of what they say is extraneous, especially in dota. The ability to analyze information and use it or not will stop you from worrying about idiots. No more "ah shit, he baited me" or whatever.

                      Grimm

                        honestly, you're your own ceilling at dota.
                        The game is fairly easy to progress at just by knowing what to do.

                        kuci

                          Pretty much agree with grimm here, i have a friend who keep complaining about being in 3k bracket and yet he pick core or jungle midas wk

                          varjager

                            honestly, you're your own ceilling at dota.
                            The game is fairly easy to progress at just by knowing what to do.

                            I agree with what you say but everyone doesnt have the same skill ceilining, it could be archon/ancient/immortal.

                            I follow football, i follow talents and player careers connected to the national team and my local club and its quite obvious everyone has their individual skill ceiling.

                            Eddie

                              Does it matter OP? At the end of the day nobody gives a flying fuck about your mmr and the fact that you're stuck. So have fun dude

                              Tribo

                                There is no ceiling you're just limiting yourself

                                Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                                  As you progress, you will start to learn new tricks. Basically, by the time you're 4k you've learned most of the tricks but then you need to apply them in reality which is not the same as KNOWING to do something.

                                  Iron branch to counter leash slark.

                                  Synyster Gates

                                    Thanks for the response guys. I completely agree with what hood pope said. That's the same thing I talk about with friends when we talk about getting better yourself and climbing MMR. I guess I was just having a bad day. But give me some credit man, playing in SEA is quite stressful in itself haha. Anyway, I am back at crushing my games again xD. Grinding some juggernaut lately.

                                    varjager

                                      There is no ceiling you're just limiting yourself

                                      Ofcourse there is a ceiling of individual skill, why would dota stand out?

                                      Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                                        Ofcourse there is a ceiling of individual skill, why would dota stand out?

                                        Muelsyse

                                          Oh my, HanYolo's ideas seems interesting.

                                          Let me give u an example, in front of you, is a wall, that blocks your, so what you gonna do is, try to do something, anything, until eventually, one day, you can climb it. It has been 6 month im stucked at archon 2.

                                          In other word, go play Getting Over It by Bennet Foddy. You'll get it.

                                          Trash

                                            @Grimm how does one learn what one is supposed to do?
                                            I believe I am improving, albeit I am inconsistent. I have 2 accounts, the third created just yesterday. My 1st account was calibrated at 900 mmr, atm 1300 mmr. My 2nd account I created some time back and calibrated at 1.7k mmr. It is this one, with the doggy. And now while I can do well with 2k players in my games, sometimes when I get matched with players of lower mmr, where I am the highest mmr there is no guarantee that I will be able to win since I can be inconsistent.
                                            Is it due to me not being a good enough carry? Since then I tend to lean towards carrying, although I believe I am decent with offlane more than carrying.

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                                            TokyoTokyo

                                              yolo comments is on point.

                                              Rocket

                                                If you want to climb you need to learn to play as a player with mmr 1000 higher than whatever your current mmr is. Otherwise variance means your win rate will be 51-52% or whatever.

                                                *numbers are just rough estimates to make a point

                                                TLDR: you won’t climb by improving a little bit - you need to aim to get significantly better to climb.

                                                La Dz

                                                  Just go do crazy stuff, play dota because you LIKE it and not because you wanna prove smth have fun and good luck

                                                  Kotato

                                                    if you are playing to gain mmr, you are 90% chance a person broken inside that needs help and mental guidance...

                                                    Väinämöinen

                                                      well loosing mmr is loosing games and thats not fun

                                                      gaining mmr is winning games and thats a lot of fun

                                                      Kotato

                                                        ^this is epistemologically incorrect

                                                        Väinämöinen

                                                          personally games i loose tend to be not very fun

                                                          eXcel

                                                            I don’t loose any games, I keep them all tight.