General Discussion

General Discussionwhy macropyre is so weak?

why macropyre is so weak? in General Discussion
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    I really love jak, dual breath and liquid fire are amazing abilities that can cripple the enemies so much. and push really well. but macropyre is way too unimpactful and ice path is really unreliable without cyclone

    I almost always go 4-0-4-0

    and it sadden me because half of the hero feel so awesome to play, while quarter is a bad version of impale and the other quarter without good setup like cogs and ice shard is as good as a wave cleaner

    please rework macropyre and ice path :(

    Riguma Borusu

      what is a jakiro

      is it a new dota 2 hero?

      omoshiroi desu

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        well i didn't write "jakiro" so how did you know its name if you don't know him?

        Riguma Borusu

          jebaited

          Rocket

            it should be a proper zoning spell. maybe 10secs of burn damage for everyone dumb enough to walk in. aghs should be reworked to make it ice too

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              I actually think the concept of his long range huge backswing can be a sick initiation tool

              like aghs gush, a wave that travels and throw enemies, stunning them for quiet a bit

              so it would be like a weaker ravage on lower cd, maybe a dragon roar or something like that

              and ice path can be something like the slippery river modifier in legends of dota

              Jack__Attack

                We have discussed this many months ago and concluded it's one of the worst ultimates in the game

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                  I wasnt presented in that discussion

                  anyway yea I nominate it for that

                  Tribo

                    What?
                    You can cut creep waves with the ult and deal a lot of dmg/cancel blinks
                    Idk why u punks complain

                    Riguma Borusu

                      the problem is that heroes that have a shitty ultimate generally have other redeeming qualities to make up for it

                      Kryptnyt

                        Macropyre is a hard Monkey King counter

                        Totentanz to The King: M ...

                          Dont fucking go 4-0-4 you should max ice path by level 9. Macropyre is useful for different situations. Best usage imo is cutting down batches of trees so that your wards can give better vision.

                          Riguma Borusu

                            also macropyre can be good when you're pushing or defending highground, it can sort of act like area denial in some cases, although its potency will depend on many factors

                            low prio master

                              Macropyre deals a lot of dmg its ridiculous, not a mention if any stun,root or so.Used to be weak aegis ago, i remember running thru macropyre with no shoes still deal no dmg, now your feets burn fast

                              Suck my tiny curry dick

                                Macropyre deals a lot of dmg its ridiculous, not a mention if any stun,root or so.Used to be weak aegis ago, i remember running thru macropyre with no shoes still deal no dmg, now your feets burn fast

                                Riguma Borusu

                                  Macropyre deals a lot of dmg its ridiculous, not a mention if any stun,root or so.Used to be weak aegis ago, i remember running thru macropyre with no shoes still deal no dmg, now your feets burn fast also my mother dropped me when I was born

                                  Samwise Gamgee

                                    Macropyre deals a lot of dmg its ridiculous, not a mention if any stun,root or so.Used to be weak aegis ago, i remember running thru macropyre with no shoes still deal no dmg, now your feets burn fast also my mother dropped me when I was born

                                    Shou

                                      sandstorm does massive dmg too, 5,000 dmg in fact, but no one fucking stands in it for the whole duration, same with macropyre

                                      also please max ice path its his best ability to set up kills

                                      fx

                                        Because its not strong haHAA

                                        No-uh

                                          Ice path is a great spell. Its the only spell that can still stun after it has been cast, making great follow up after any other stun. Macropyre is pretty darn weak though.

                                          Tu tayta

                                            Just drop that shit in front of your T3 and watch your enemies say "haha, yeah no, let's go somewhere else"

                                            Also, several spells are good not just because of the effect itself, but rather because of just the threat that they pose. That's the whole reason a hero like Dark Willow is so annoying for example, all her spells are stupidly telegraphed, but they are able to fuck up your teamfight so hard they are able to have an impact even if nobody got caught in them, because her enemies have to actively avoid them.
                                            Likewise with Jakiro, nobody is going to be dumb enough to stand in your Macropyre, true, so just drop it somewhere you don't want your enemies to stand on, limit the space they can freely move in. Oh, Phoenix didn't land his AS slow before Supernova? Drop your ulti under it. Someone blinked into your Arc Warden's evasion bubble? Macropyre his ass. Is Roshan being contested? Burn all the bitches there.

                                            Player 281121816

                                              Why u need ur shitty macropyre if u can spam stroke of fate from miles away for every 5 scd?

                                              Dogwater

                                                Ice path with euls is really good. Macropyre is a lot of aoe damage and good with lockdown like chrono or something

                                                Saya Tidak Takut, Hadapi ...

                                                  The ability of using area denial requires a special brain function, and some people who cant properly use it shouldn't play the hero in the first place.

                                                  Atha

                                                    If u think about it, phoenix supernova dmg was worse than jakiro. Assume it's all lvl 1/2/3( aghs) ult, then :
                                                    Supernova deals 60/80/100 (aghs : could kidnap ur team into egg) dps for 6 scnds
                                                    and
                                                    Macropyre deals 100/140/180 (220) dps for 10 (30) scnds
                                                    but it isn't dmg all dmg we all talking about.
                                                    There are different cooldown, different aghs upgrade, different aoe and length, differents set of skills, different approach for escaping (hitting the egg or sidestepping macropyre), Talent tree.

                                                    Atha

                                                      My point is, I think Macropyre is a really good ult that can't be compared with skills like Stroke of Fate or Firestorm. It's very good for defending, especially high ground, but doesnt scale very well when used for the offensive.
                                                      Also, Blackhole was actually a shitty skill that only deals 55 dps for 4 scnds, and it's even channeling, but why does it get 200 scnds cd and 275 manacost at lvl 1?
                                                      Even CM freezing field deals a lot more dmg, has longer duration, has higher aoe than Blackhole, it only got 120 scnds cd and 200 manacost at lvl 1.

                                                      spilled

                                                        Freezing field doesn't disable the enemy, doesn't go through BKB, and doesn't reveal invis units though. (Berserker's call, however, does basically everything black hole does on a shorter cooldown without being channeled.)

                                                        Tu tayta

                                                          Yeah, but screaming BERSERKER'S CAAAAAALL at the top of your lungs doesn't have the same ring to it.

                                                          Shou

                                                            macropyre is just the most awkward aoe too, its so thin u can like block a couple choke points but u can just not stand in it fairly easily, its not like shrapnel that covers a sizeable aoe thats super awkward for the enemy team, that ability is good area denial.

                                                            it can and should be compared to almost any other aoe dot area denial type ability, and it is almost always worse and its an ultimate.

                                                            jakiro is a fine hero, but like no one gives a shit abt macropyre, its all abt enabling push and having icepath

                                                            Rocket

                                                              Could have it do double damage if hero is also stunned in icepath.

                                                              Lokieleven

                                                                The spell is fine.

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                                                                  I don't talk about how much dps it does, it does decent dps

                                                                  I talk about its overall impact considering its awkward shape

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                                                                  Feachairu

                                                                    just play jakiro mid and u will be raping everyone with macro while enemies underleveled and you have eul+veil

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                                                                      for that I need to get to the point where I'm outleveling them with jakiro mid and getting euls+veil

                                                                      Riguma Borusu

                                                                        for that I need to get to the point where I'm outleveling them with jakiro mid and getting euls+veil

                                                                        Jakiro can actually be a really strong mid, the problems start when you realize you had jakiro mid and the game is not over 30 minutes in...

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                                                                          sure, its fine jak mid

                                                                          but you do need to outlevel and outfarm them

                                                                          so how overleveled jakiro melting the enemies different than an overleveled qop or overleveled tinker etc'?

                                                                          Riguma Borusu

                                                                            so how overleveled jakiro melting the enemies different than an overleveled qop or overleveled tinker etc'?

                                                                            Jakiro is kind of like dragon knight in this scenario (except he's a real dragon LUL), an overleveled Jakiro can take towers easily, and you can five man around him as well. QoP and Tinker put pressure in completely different ways but also scale better.

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                                                                              my point is that you come with the assumption that I am at an advantage

                                                                              who say that I would reliably and constantly be at the advantage every game?

                                                                              Riguma Borusu

                                                                                It's not an assumption, it's a special requirement. There are core heroes that can lose their lane super hard and still come back later.

                                                                                Then there's Jakiro. That was my point.

                                                                                Feachairu

                                                                                  his ult is pretty hurt actually,180 dps/s ? +stun and slow+team stun

                                                                                  well but why not just use cm

                                                                                  Riguma Borusu

                                                                                    well but why not just use cm

                                                                                    CM's ult is channeled. But it's admittedly harder to get out of a nova (if you can't stop CM from channeling it) than it is to walk out of macropyre in most situations.

                                                                                    Feachairu

                                                                                      but cm ult gib 10555555555555555555550% slow when you use it with skil 1

                                                                                      KITSCH

                                                                                        Well the ulti requires alot of positioning and timing. Plus i always use it to farm creep waves, when im lucky, i get 2 creep waves. Many people doesn’t know that Jakiro is actually a good farmer.

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                                                                                          I think it is pretty well known that jakiro is one of the best wave clearers in the game

                                                                                          and thats my point, the ulti is weak enough that the cooldown isnt saved to teamfights and rather used to depush lanes

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                                                                                          i have 5 reports to use

                                                                                            lol why max stun when u can kill people with nukes+veil

                                                                                            Player 281121816

                                                                                              his ult is pretty hurt actually,180 dps/s ? +stun and slow+team stun

                                                                                              Jakiro ulti deals 180 dps at lvl 18, meanwhile stroke of fate deals 500-600 dmg every 5 scd at lvl 7. Seriously, even tinker march do more impact than this piece of shit “ulti” because march actually cover much more AoE

                                                                                              bearcat0611

                                                                                                imo if you wanted to buff macropyre the way to do it would be to change his aghs that doesn't cover any of the skills weaknesses. Probably make his aghs cause macropyre to be a cone shape rather than granting extra range and 20 extra useless seconds.